You're listening and watching the Transform your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This is the fourth interview in a four-part series with Gary Zukav it's an eight-part series, but I do four interviews with Gary. And then four deep dives. And this is our fourth conversation. As you'll hear, we talk even more. About the new consciousness coming to planet earth. And how consciousness is changing in the matter of generations. And how humanity is changing. We talk in this interview about further soul alignment. We talk about the change in the world. And changes that are happening in the world. We think they're happening many people think they're happening externally. We can all look around and see the world changing meaning in terms of human behavior. And we think it is things happening in the world. But it's really things that are happening inside our individual worlds. Meaning what appears to come from pain, meaning things that we think that cause us in the external world are really coming as a reflection of what's in our internal world. That pain that we're seeing externally is in us. And we talk about that quite a bit. So, this interview again is a, it had a different tone than the other ones. It was a lot gentler. It floated even a lot easier. And it just has a different frequency and vibe did the other ones that were done. So, I know you're going to enjoy. This particular episode, we also talk about choice and you've heard me say before and episodes by myself is that life is choice. And I've said before, there are only two, two human emotions. Love and fear. And Gary and I talk about in this episode, that when you're making your choices, because you are a being that makes choices. Where are you making your choices from love or fear? There are consequences to those decisions. Okay, so that wraps up the introduction of this episode, enjoy the entire episode and I will catch you in the outro and make sure you listen to the outro because. I want to remind you about something. All right. Enjoy.

Hi, I'm Jim Fortin, and you're about to start Transforming your Life from the Inside Out with this podcast. I'm widely considered the leader in Subconscious Transformation, and I've coached super achievers all around the world for over 25 years. Here you're going to find no rah motivation and no hype because this podcast is a combination of Brain Science, Transformational Psychology, and Ancient Wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you've never thought possible. If you're wanting a lot more in life to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive, and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you because you're going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you. I'm glad you're here.

Jim Fortin: So, Gary, I want to share a couple of stories with you about working of Don Xavier from 1996 and they relate to death. And then you can take them wherever you want to go and bring your wisdom and your thoughts and your sharing. And we'll just see where it goes. But I remember in 1996, Being a shaman, he works non physically. He works in the ethers. He works in dream time, as we were just talking about a little earlier also in the energies and the ethers. And when he works with people in dream time, he's able to literally orchestrate, see, and work with you and teach you in dream time. And the very first night that I started working with him in 1996, Before that night, before bedtime, he said, if I hit you too hard, let me know tomorrow and I'll pull that. So that night about 3 am I woke up and I felt like I wanted to run a marathon. Now, I've never in college in the 80's did cocaine, but that was a drug of choice. I never did it. I knew better because I just. No, me, I just didn't do it, but I felt like I had done like a bail or a box of cocaine. I mean, I just wanted to run a marathon, but in the dream that night, that night in the dream, we were, I saw this vignette of us in Roman times, he and I, and he had about an eight foot sphere, sphere, sphere, not sphere, sphere. And he walks up and puts it right through my chest. And he kills me in dream time. And then the next scene in dream time is he and I standing on the one side of a curtain and he pulls it open and I'm alive on the other side. And he said, see, I told you there is no death. Death is an illusion I know that you, we, we kid, but your favorite subjects and, and mine too are death and, and love. So, I don't really know where I want to go, but I guess we can go here and start.

Gary Zukav: You can add joy to that list.

Jim Fortin: Enjoy. Okay. And I think both of those might bring joy, don't you think, to some degree?

Gary Zukav: What's that?

Jim Fortin: I think both of those, death and love, can bring joy also.

Gary Zukav: I feel that, when I'm aware enough, there isn't anything that doesn't, because there isn't anything that isn't love that isn't joy. Yeah, I'm separated up. I guess I don't want to be preachy, but

Jim Fortin: Be preachy. Be preachy, Gary. Let's go preach away.

Gary Zukav: Well, I'd rather share away.

Jim Fortin: Okay. Share away.

Gary Zukav: Share a different way. The first time that I realized that I am my perceptions. Was ground shaking for me, and I want to suggest that to you and to the people who are watching us and listening, and that is not that you're not having your perceptions. They're not happening to you. You are your perceptions. I have, I, I have some teachers too, and I, I value them. I've been learning, not accepting without questioning, but learning for 30 or 40 years. And so, I trust what I'm learning. They never tell me what to do, but they do illuminate my experiences. So that I can use them more wisely, which means to be more aware, more responsible, more loving. So, once I experienced that, I am my perceptions, the thought occurred to me, well, wait a minute. What happens when I die? I said, so I asked, I asked one of the, I asked a teacher, what happens when I die? What if I'm in a car accident and I die now what? And he said, I don't know if it's a he, it's an impersonal energy. Right. Yeah. He said you will be those perceptions. You will be those thoughts. You will be those sensations. You will be that consciousness. And that's when I first realized, Jim, I can't die. It’s not possible. So, I want to share that with our listeners.
And I can only do that because there is now a change, a transformation in human consciousness that's unprecedented and epic. And Linda Francis, my spiritual partner and I have spoken about this for, oh, 30 years, maybe 27 years. And at the time, in the late 80s, it was big news. It was more than big news. It was visionary. But I was taught that this transformation will come to the entire human species in three generations, within three generations. One of them already come. That's the Millennials. So, we're approaching a midway mark in this transformation and the news that there is big change happening. It's not news anymore. There's an entire generation that was born with this new consciousness. It's not limited to the five senses like I was when I was born. Maybe like you when you were born. It's it doesn't understand power as the ability to manipulate into control like five sensory humans did. It understands powers, the alignment of your personality with your soul. But that part of you that is immortal, that longs for harmony, not longs, that intends harmony, cooperation, sharing, and reverence for life.
That’s happening now and it's happening everywhere. How do you know? First of all, in you. Look in you. That's where the changes are happening. But you can look outside too. And what you see is a world in dysfunction. Yeah. That is the world that was built. By five sensory humans, by the old consciousness. That is the world that was built on, and by, and for, and expressed his power as external, as the ability to manipulate and to control. Now as this new consciousness has entered our species, and has entered you, and has entered me. With it comes the potential of a new kind of power. And that's the one I just described called that authentic power and distinguish it from external power. External power has now become toxic. It used to be our good medicine. Now it's poison. It produces only violence and destruction. So, we are living now in a time of overlap. We have one foot, you might say, in the old consciousness, the dying consciousness. It's actually the dead consciousness. But it's still here through inertia, you might say, to use that physical example.
And the other foot is in the new consciousness. And we choose between the two with every decision. And we begin to see with our multisensory perception. We were five sensory, now we're multisensory. We can see that what we thought was the entirety of the world is not. It's a learning environment the earth school. It is a domain of time and space and matter and duality. The fundamental duality in the earth school is love and fear. The opposite of love is not hating. It's fear. By fear, I mean those things we experience as jealousy., resentment inferiority, superiority, depression, hopelessness, despair every compulsion, every obsession, every addiction. These are the things we experience as fear. And at the same time, we have other parts of our personality that we experience as compassion, gratitude, gratitude, appreciation, caring, contentment, patience, all of the universe. And we can choose, and we can call it loving parts of the personality. or frightened parts of the personality. We can call it the new consciousness or the die, or the dying consciousness. It doesn't matter what you call it. What matters is what you choose. What you choose is an intention and an intention is not a goal.
Like my goal is not to go to South America or become a welder or a carpenter or have a family. These are out tensions, but an intention is a quality of consciousness. And when you bring the intention of love, you bring that quality of consciousness to what you say and what you do. And when you bring the intention of fear, you bring that quality of consciousness to what you say and what you do. When you speak and act with the intention of love, you create constructive, healthy, good feeling consequences. When you act with the intention or speak with the intention of fear, you do the opposite. You create destructive. painful, harmful consequences. Creating the new power, authentic power, requires doing exactly what I'm talking about. Realizing that you can distinguish within yourself between love and fear and choose love, no matter what's happening inside of you or what's happening outside of you. What’s happening inside of you may be an experience of a frightened part of your personality, like despair, hopelessness, not wanting to live anymore.
Resentment or competition. And what's happening outside of you might be another 9 /11 type event. Or a catastrophic natural disaster. But as you create authentic power, you can recognize everything that happens in you as either love or fear, and choose love, and everything that happens outside of you as something to which you are reacting with love or fear, and choose love. That’s creating authentic power. When you can do that, you are a powerful person. And until you do that, you have no power. Which, if you think about it, is the opposite from the old consciousness. The old consciousness was that if I had the ability to manipulate and control, I had power.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: Do you?

Jim Fortin: No.

Gary Zukav: Well, I see that. You see that. I believe that the people who were watching us see that. But somebody who's sitting in a corner office on the 53rd floor, who's got six homes, who's got a yacht, a private jet, and has got 50, 000 people under his influence, he'll say, you got to be joking. But is he content? Is he joyful? Is he patient? Is he appreciating the world and the people around him? If you're not doing those things, you don't have power. The new consciousness makes all of this, it illuminates all of this. And I'm saying this because Now, I feel that people who are experiencing the new consciousness want to know more about it. They want to know how you use it. What's it looks like? What is this new consciousness? Linda and I have given lots of examples that were sufficient in the past., for example, you have the thought that you're more than a body and a mind. That is a multisensory question. Am I more than a body and a mind? And the answer is yes. You are, you are you have a component, an aspect of yourself that existed before you were born and that will exist after you die, your soul you can look at the world and you do look at the world and you ask yourself, I think, or you say to yourself, I think that the world's not random. I think it's meaningful. I think I can learn about myself from the world. That is a multisensory observation. And when you start to know things about other people that your five senses couldn't have provided you, that also is. Well, those are in the book, The Seat of the Soul, that I was honored to share some of these things with so many years ago. Now, we're in it, and it's exciting.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: And it can be terrifying. It can be terrifying to frighten parts of your personality. It can be exciting to loving parts.

Jim Fortin: Okay. Let me segue from the episode for just one moment. A long while back. Gary asked me in a conversation we were having how he could support me. And I knew he meant that from the heart. And I want to do the same for Gary and even though he's a New York times bestselling author and millions of people know who he is and they've read his books. I know that I can help him, at least from my little corner of the world. And then want to tell you very quickly about a program that he has, by the way, it's dirt cheap. So, don't walk, run and get registered. It's only $37 bucks a month for his continuity site. And the membership has called an evening with Gary Zukav. And my opinion. $37 is a no brainer to spend an evening with Gary. Getting to talk to him and ask him questions. And what's included is a monthly 60 minute hard opening zoom call. It's live with Gary. You'll deep dive into relevant topics with Gary and get inspiration from Gary. You'll have the opportunity to dialogue with and ask Gary questions. And you'll also actually get journal prompts that will help you along the way. There are journal prompts are actually three curated. journal prompts to deepen yourself exploration. Again, I've known who Gary is for a lot of decades. If you're listening to this podcast, obviously you're finding benefit. And my opinion, the guys, one of the greatest spiritual teachers of our time. So, obviously you do not want to miss the opportunity and you want to hop on it. That connect with him personally, to ask him questions. The links will be in the show notes so go and get registered for $37 bucks a month. And spend an evening with Gary Zukav Okay. Back to the episode.

Gary Zukav: So, what is the new consciousness in more in different terms? One of them is, one aspect is what I've just mentioned, the realization that you are your perceptions. Not that you are having them, or that they're happening to you, but that you are your perceptions. When you realize and you begin to allow yourself to experience from that perspective, in that perception, an interesting thing happens, because then, who's the perceiver? And what's the perceived? Where did the perceiver go? It disappeared.

Jim Fortin: It's not there anymore.

Gary Zukav: This is the consciousness that we have now. This is the consciousness that is awaiting us. This is the consciousness that our awareness is moving into, and as it moves into, it's no longer our awareness. It's awareness, let me put it this way, a five sensory personality identifies itself with, put it even a better way, a five sensory personality identifies with personality. It says, I'm a personality, I'm Gary Zukav, I was born on a certain day, I'm going to die on a certain day, I'm white, male, I'm this, I'm that, and a multi-sensory personality identifies with soul, with its soul. It knows. that is in the earth school. It knows that all those things that constitute a personality are analogous to a suit, a suit of clothing, a costume, an earth suit that it wears from the time it incarnates or enters the earth school until its soul returns home. A universal human Identifies with life, capital L, there's no single focal point, you might say. That's where we're going. We're in this enormously new, novel, powerful, unprecedented transformation from five sensory to multi-sensory. That's the big news. It used to be the breaking new for millions of people, thousands of millions. It still is, but it's happening now. It's not in the future. And by the way, there is no such thing. That's another part of an expanded consciousness.

Jim Fortin: Only now.

Gary Zukav: This is what I love to talk about now. The new consciousness, the new consciousness as I'm experiencing it. And by the way, I want to say again to all the people who are listening to us you gave me the invitation to preach away.

Jim Fortin: Yep. Please. Share away. Share away.

Gary Zukav: Share what way? That's important too. I feel that, I do not ask anyone who's listening to us to take anything that I say is so because I say it, or because I've written some books or I've been on television. But instead, to see if I say anything that you resonate with, and if you do, experiment with it. See what it produces for you, because you have your life to experiment with. And if I don't say anything that you resonate with, or what I say that you don't resonate with, throw it away. Don't try, don't try to wear a shoe that doesn't fit. And everything that I share with you, I'm sharing through a very limited perception. The perception of this incarnation that I am speaking to you from now, the incarnation of Gary Zukav. And in this case, it is included contact with nonphysical realm or an angelic realm. But all of this, Jim, as I'm becoming excited about, or excitement is becoming me, is this much. I don't know if you can see it on your screen, but I'm holding my fingers about a quarter of an inch apart. Now compare this to an infinite spectrum, not spectrum, continuum, no beginning and no end. Well, that quarter of an inch is my window into the universe that I'm sharing with you.

Jim Fortin: I did say that a lot it's like our lifetime is like a lightning bolt. You know, in our physical lifetime, you might've seen, we have seen a lightning bolt and it's just boom here and there it's gone and our experience and our perceptions and our awareness in the physical body is like that lightning bolt it's here and it's gone before you even, and it's just the smallest, smallest aspect of who we are, but most of us. And a human humanity, but we are waking up, let's that, that the physical body and our, what we can perceive with the five senses control the bigger aspects of our being because we're not aware of it.

Gary Zukav: That's the change that we're in. That's the change in the earth school. We learn to identify those parts of our self that are attached to the earth. Or a personality and those parts that are attached to this that are connected with the soul. And we learn to expand into a larger consciousness. But that sounded a bit even new age to me. I didn't expand anything, but something expanded. That sounded new age too. How to put this? This is really a challenge because as you acquire multisensory perception, you discover that your intellect is not adequate to communicate or express it.

Jim Fortin: Right.

Gary Zukav: Your intellect was designed to work with your five senses.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: Surveys, analyzes, deduces, as it experiences the five, what the five sensory data and it presents to you or the personality what is most helpful in pursuing external power, manipulating and controlling, but it cannot grasp and it cannot communicate multisensory perception. There is a higher order of logic and reasoning of the heart that does that. And multisensory humans use that. And as you begin to move into the consciousness of the universal human, then you move beyond the ability of your intellect to move with you. In other words, you reach a place. Where your intellect comes to a stopping point. But you have not. And that is the consciousness that is now becoming part of the human awareness. Now we have always had multi-sensory humans, like your brother in law, like every founder of every organized religion. Not the religion itself, but the founder of it.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: And countless others that we don't know about. That's not new. Reincarnation is not new. Karma is not new. What is new now is that the entire human species, seven and a half billion people, are moving into a new, the new consciousness at the same time, within a very short period of time. The velocity of this transformation is startling. Five century consciousness evolved and emerged over 300, 000 years, 300 millennia. And this is happening in three generations. That's how fast this change is happening. And so, everyone that's listening to us is probably resonating with all of this. They're saying, yes, the world is changing, but are you looking at it from where you were or where you are becoming? If you look at it from where you were, everything is falling apart. And that's because our social structures and our interpersonal structures are crumbling around us. They are crumbling because they are built on the perception and the understanding of power as the ability to manipulate and to control. And that now produces only violence and destruction. It doesn't matter whether the structure is, the social structure is governance or commerce or healthcare. Or they are all disintegrating for the same reason. They're not broken that's why they can't be fixed. They're obsolete. They don't serve our evolution any longer. And new social structures and new personal structures and interpersonal structures are emerging in us. And we're experimenting with them and creating authentic power is how you assist that emergence. How you consciously use your experiences, physical and emotional, but mostly interior, to move beyond parts of your personality that are keeping you from loving. For example, a person may see a social structure disintegrating, or see the uncivility, the rudeness, the meanness of a political environment and have a reaction to it and judge it. That's not right that's wrong. This party's right. That party's wrong. It doesn't really matter which party you're pointing to when you say this one's wrong. When you see that what is happening is the replacement of an old consciousness with a new consciousness.
And the question becomes, what are you going to do about it? And when you look at a reaction that you have to what one. political party or another political party has, you think that reaction in you was caused by the world. It was caused by that party or this party, that individual or this individual, or something didn't happen in the world the way you wanted it to, a business collapsed, a relationship unraveled, and you think that the pain you're feeling was caused by this experience in the external world but it's not. It isn’t. Experiences and events in the external world activate interior dynamics in you. And those inner dynamics create the pain that you're experiencing. Let me say that again. World, what appears to be the outer world, is not the cause of your emotional pain. It activates the an interior dynamic, or interior dynamics in you, and that causes the pain that you're feeling. So, when you understand that, you can see the futility of trying to relieve yourself from your emotional pain by changing the world. It's not causing the emotional pain. Now, you can change the world, sometimes you're successful so you, I think we've talked about this on the show before, you, you, you want another partner in life, you, you want a boyfriend, you want a girlfriend, and you get that partner, and suddenly everything is good again. But then after you get to know one another, you begin to see this person, I don't think I like so much. And this isn't working out. Why are we arguing all the time?
And then the partner says this isn't working out for me either. In fact, I don't even like being with you anymore, but I have found somebody I do like and I want to be with that person. Then you go all the way from the top down to the bottom of the roller coaster and it starts again. And you look for something else in the external world to change. The point is that the most you can get from trying to change the external world the most is temporary happiness. Happiness is dependent on what happens in the world, but when you create authentic power, you ignite joy in you, and joy is not dependent on what happens in the world, and that is where you're moving. The joy, the love, the freedom from fear is what allows you to give the gifts that you were born to give, and that's where your joy and your vitality and freedom, and fulfillment, and contentment enter your life. And you can't do these things while you're competing. You can't do these things while you're judging. You can't do these things while you're in the grip of an addictive addiction. Whether it's for food, sex, gambling, money. That requires love. Love requires consciousness. You're not going to stumble onto love.
You can sometimes experience grace temporarily, which is an experience of what your life would be like without fear, but it doesn't last long. It gives you the taste, it gives you the show, it gives you the experience, so that you can now begin the work of bringing that grace into your life as an ongoing, stabilized experience and live it and become it. That's another way of saying the same things that we've been saying. You can learn from your experiences. That's what you have your experiences for. Those that are painful, which means the frightened parts of your personality. Those that are blissful, which means the loving parts you choose. You are a compassionate and loving, powerful and creative spirit, you cannot not choose. And what you are choosing in each moment is an intention, a quality of consciousness that you are bringing into what you say and what you do. And for convenience, we have said one of those qualities of consciousness is love. Its characteristics, it feels good, and when you follow it, it creates constructive, healthy consequences. And another of those qualities of consciousness is fear. It has in common with all of those other parts of your personality. It's painful when you experience it and it creates destructive, painful consequences when you act on it. This is what we're becoming aware of and in that context, Jim, our becoming awareness’s we never dream possible or that I never dreamed possible the eye that was dreaming the eye that was having experiences. For example, I suggest, for those of you who are listening to us, that you consider the possibility that the universe is inside you, and there is no outside. The first time I, I realized that possible thought, I started to experiment with this. I was looking at some trees blowing in the wind, gently, and I said to myself, well I'm looking at the universe, I've been doing this all my life, there it is, here's some trees.
Beautiful trees, gently moving. This is the universe it's outside of me. Of course, it's outside of me. But I'm going to do an experiment. I'm going to say, I'm going to pretend for a minute that I'm looking inside of me with the same thing. And then after a few minutes, I thought, well, okay, now I'm going to go back to the way the world really is. Now this is outside of me, but now I'm going to experiment going back to pretending this is the universe is inside me. And I did that a few times and then I couldn't, I couldn't go back. I couldn't change it. The universe is inside. It's really inside. And it was confusing, and it was painful to think about, because how can I tell anyone that? It sounds solipsistic. It sounds narcissistic. It sounds deeply self-centered. It sounds like someone who can't think about anything but himself. But I began to look around, and Linda and I were adopted into Lakota culture.
And the Lakota’s say the center of the universe is everywhere. But I never stopped to think about that. If it's everywhere, it's in me. But it's also in you. It's everywhere. And I thought, well, I talked to a friend of mine who was a clergyman for 70 years. He's 95 now. Christian. And I asked him, is there anything in Christian theology or literature that indicates that the universe is inside me? And he looked at me, paused for a minute as though, did he really hear that question? And then he said, the kingdom of heaven is within. Yes. How could I have not seen that? I've heard that all my life. I was brought up in a Christian country. I never saw it before. There are so many things I never saw before that were in front of my eyes. Be still and know that I am. What a gross misinterpretation that is. I'm saying, a boss, the boss, the one on the 53rd floor is saying, you little one, be still and listen, because I'm telling you, I, the boss, am. That's not the message. The message is, oh, my dear, precious friend, be still, be still and listen to what you know about yourself. Listen. What is it that you know, what you know, and what you will see is about yourself, I am.? That’s what love there is so much that the new consciousness can reveal to us. Does reveal to us, will reveal to us. And that's all from this perception that I'm sharing and that we are all absorbing from, I'm speaking as though this is the path. We started the beginning and now we're coming to the end. There is no end and there is no beginning. And we are that.

Jim Fortin: Let me add there if I, if I may, and, and thank you for sharing that. I remember watching. And I didn't watch a lot of her just apparently, I was watching at the right time, Oprah and Wayne Dyer was on Oprah. That's 1997, 1998, 1999. I don't know. And he said something that I've come to not understand, but know understanding is analytical to me multi like 5 senses knowing is multisensory. It's just a deeper essence inside of, you know, and I've come to know this, but to the point you're making, as I have come to the awareness that I am one of my favorite movies used to be, I tell people don't judge, but one of my favorite movies used to be the, what's it called? The Ten Commandments by Cecil B. DeMille. And I was always enthralled

Gary Zukav: The one where Charlton Heston played Moses?

Jim Fortin: Yes. Yeah, that's it.

Gary Zukav: He's perfect for that, isn't he? He's great. He's a man.

Jim Fortin: Yes. And I remember as a kid, even when I was 10 years old, I was captivated by one of the phrases, I am that I am. And what I've come to know is that I am is the name of God. So, when we say I am X, Y, Z, whatever you are, you are that, but everything is everything. I am that thing. And so, as I'm listening to you, a lot of people think, oh, that's narcissistic to say I'm God because they're working on the old outdated model. The five sensory model, but we are all part of that divinity. Like one drop of water is the same as the rest of the water in the container. And it is the, I am, and that is the name. But when we speak that we're speaking the name of God by speaking that, at least that's my awareness of it and my perception and interpretation of.

Gary Zukav: Well, that's beautiful, Jim. I think that I seldom say I am because there is so much power in that statement. That's why I usually refer and more accurately refer to my experiences as an experience of my, a part of my personality feels that it is inadequate, feels that it can't contribute, feels that it's not worth being here.There's another part of my personality that feels exhilarated to be alive, joyful to be alive. But I don't put I am in front of even the healthier parts of my personality because they are what they are. They're experiences given to me, just as your experiences are given to you, and I'm talking now to the, or everyone who's listening to us, to teach you because we are in a learning environment for shorthand, we're calling the earth school. And what are you learning in the earth school emotional awareness, if you're learning how to create authentic power, responsible choice, how to make choices that create consequences for which you're willing to assume responsibility. That you have volition, you have free will, it is real. That you create with your, what you do or say, not, you don't create with your deeds or your, Words, but with your intentions. Yes, all of that. What really are we learning in the Earth School? Love. That is the direction that we are moving. And it's whether your brother in law, or it's Deepak Chopra, or it's Eckhart Tolle, or it's Wayne Dyer, or it's Marianne Williamson.

Jim Fortin: Or Gary Zukav

Gary Zukav: Or Gary Zukav That incarnation. That one too. All of them are committed. All of those in their hearts are committed to moving toward love, moving themselves toward love, and helping others do that for themselves also. And when I saw that, I came to love the very people that I was competitive with. 30 years ago, 20 years ago, they are contributing enormously to the world. And so are you, Jim Fortin. So is everyone as they begin to have the ability to distinguish within themselves between love and fear. And by the way, everyone is contributing every moment. The question is, what are you contributing? Well, if you're contributing your fear, you're contributing more of the old consciousness to the world that is collapsing, to the world that is disintegrating, to the world that has no future. When you are creating with intentions of love, speaking with intentions of love, you are contributing that to the world. In other words, you are a powerful and creative, compassionate, and loving being, and you do not create more powerfully when you create with love.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: And you do not create less powerfully when you create with fear. When you create with fear, you are creating with the full power of your soul. When you create with love, you are creating with the full power of your soul. What are you going to create, experiences of destruction, pain, dissolution, despair, hopelessness? You can do that. You've done it. Everyone who's listening to us has done it. You know the reality of that power, although you think it's imposed on you, it's not. Or you can choose to contribute joy and observation, or at least a belief that the universe is beneficent, that it is conscious, that it is a place, a space, a universe of love, and you contribute that. So, creating authentic power, real power, is becoming aware of your unlimited creative capacity, and also the unlimited extent to which you are responsible for how you use it.

Jim Fortin: Don Xavier and I talk a lot about that over the years. There are so many things we would be here for hours if I annotated everything you said, because he said the same things but creativity we don't recognize. Most people don't recognize how powerful they are and their intention and that they're constantly miscreating out of their fear. When they're living in the 5 senses and they're miscreating all day long out of their fear, out of their anger, all these kinds of things, which don't even exist anymore. These things are their past and they're living out of their past history, recreating their past over and over and over again out of these emotions that don't serve them, but they don't recognize they're the ones that are creating them. So, let me hop around here a little bit. The example that Don Xavier is the way,

Gary Zukav: Can I say one thing, Jim?

Jim Fortin: Please.

Gary Zukav: If I may have that permission. These people are not miscreating. They are creating.

Jim Fortin: They are creating what they don't want.

Gary Zukav: They are creating what they intend. But they do not know what their intention is.
That is the same thing as an unconscious creation. When you do not know your intention, it's fear, and you are creating with an intention of fear. And what you are creating is not something that you would want. And in fact, when it comes, you say, Why me? Why did this happen? I didn't intend this. Yeah. You did intend that, but you weren't aware of it. As you create authentic power, you become aware of your intentions. And you do that through your emotions. Through the heart, you look and I would love to on the show sometime if whenever, maybe we're here now, but you're in your emotions are messages from your soul and the message they inform you about is whether love is active in you or whether fear is active in you. If you put your attention, when you put your attention into your chest area, for example, or your throat area or your solar plexus area, and you look for physical sensations. Not labels like anger, happy, joyful, bubbly. Physical sensations like throbbing, aching, contracting, stinging, burning, churning.
Then, if you find those kinds of physical sensations that are painful, you know that fear is present in you. And the same thing in your solar plexus, your throat. You have eight of these seven of these. In the east, they're called chakras, but let's call them energy processing centers because that's what they do as energy enters your body from the top of your head and moves down to the bottom of your torso and up again, it passes through each of these processing energy processing centers. And when it's processed in fear and doubt, you feel pain, physical pain in the vicinity of that processing center, excuse me. And when it's processed in love and trust. You feel good there. In other words, when you radiate energy and love and trust, you feel good in those areas.
And when you lose energy, hemorrhage energy, and fear and doubt, you're in pain there. You feel it. And so, this is how your soul communicates to you, whether you're in love or in fear, through your emotions. Emotional awareness is central to creating authentic power, which is another way of saying the heart is central in creating authentic power. When you feel good feelings, sensations, you know you're in love. And this is very helpful because, as we've mentioned, as I've mentioned, when you create with love, you create constructive, healthy consequences. That feel good. And when you create with fear, you create the opposite, destructive, unhealthy, painful consequences. Now, you're beginning to cook with gas, but you know, through your emotions, whether you're in fear or love, now you apply the second tool of creating authentic power, choice. Responsible choice. A choice that creates consequences for which you are willing to assume responsibility. It can be love, it can be fear, it can be whatever you choose because you are the chooser.
You are the creator. That means When you can do that, when you can feel, say, fear, the painful physical sensations of a frightened part of your personality, and you can notice its thoughts, its thoughts will always be judgmental, critical, comparative, like, Oh, he's not very good at that, or I'm not very good at that. I already know this. Why, why are they teaching me this? And she's so stupid. Or, I'm so stupid. This is what frightened parts of the personality think and how they feel. Now while you're feeling all of that, while it's going on and you're conscious of it, use your volition, use your will, your free will, to move your attention into a time in your life when you knew you were loving. Or, you knew you were loved. Could be with a parent, a grandparent, could be with a child, could be with a puppy, could be anything. When you knew, you knew you were lovable and loved, or you were loving, and then decide to speak or act from that part of your personality, a loving part, rather than from the frightened part, while you're experiencing the frightened part is the moment of creating authentic power. That's where the spiritual rubber meets the road. And the more you do that, the more often you do that, you'll find that that frightened part of your personality begins to lose its control over you. And as you do it again and again, its control over you disappears.
That frightened part of your personality is not a thing. It doesn't exist outside of you. It's an experience you have of fear, and as that ceases to be a part of you, that experience ceases to exist in you. All of this, all of these are ways of looking at creating authentic power, and all of them are the same thing. They are all ways to use your life, your experiences, your thoughts, your emotions, your intentions, and your volition in aware ways. So that you become more emotionally aware and you can know when you're in fear and when you're in love. And so that you can create consequences that you want to experience, which is always a good thing to be able to do that because you're going to experience now, we're talking about becoming a master in your life. Your life becomes a canvas and you're the painter. What are you going to put on it? Dark, heavy colors, lifeless. Having despairing or you going to put vibrant colors? The prime, the primary color is red, yellow, and I've forgotten the third one.

Jim Fortin: Blue. What is it? Red, yellow, and blue. I don't know what they are.

Gary Zukav: No. Blue is yellow and green.

Jim Fortin: Okay. I don't know any or

Gary Zukav: But the point, I've been a long time since I studied color theory. But here's the point. You can put anything on the canvas. You can put pastels that make you feel light. You can put lines that generate movement and activity instead of lines that go, bring you down and become stagnant. What are you going to create? A five-century person says, It's not up to me, it's up to the world. Like they say, they meaning five century humans, When the world when the sun shines, you shine, you, you, you smile. That’s a beautiful song by John Denver, Sunshine Almost Always Makes Me Happy. Me too, Jim. But not when I feel I want to kill myself. It doesn't matter what the sun's doing then. Now we're talking about internal dynamics. We're talking about using your life to grow spiritually. And what does that mean? Not become religious. Not become dogmatic. Well, this is the excitement of creating authentic power. It's the excitement of being alive and knowing that you can do this. This is not, creating authentic power is not an unattainable goal. It's waiting for you at the end of a long and hard journey. Every time you experience gratitude, or caring, or contentment, or awe of the universe, you've just experienced authentic power. You've just experienced your soul, because these are the parts of your personality that are already aligned with your soul. You just created authentic power. When are you going to do it again? How long are you going to keep doing it? How about continually, or how about experiencing a part of your personality that's not aligned with yourself, like jealousy, resentment, competitiveness, and the hell that that produces inside. How long are you going to do that? You are the chooser. You are the universe. Now, I don't mean that you are the universe. There is no single perception that can encompass the universe, but you are a unique expression of the universe.
When I first realized this, I thought, I can't tell that people, people may go for that, but they might not. And then I thought, I read somewhere in Buddhist literature that when Siddhartha became the Buddha, when he became enlightened, he saw worlds as numerous as dust motes. You know what a dust mote is, everyone out there who's listening to us? When you look at sunlight coming through, a shaft of sunlight coming through the window, and you can see little particles dancing around in it, countless particles. Each of those, is a dust mote. And what the Buddha saw were dust motes.
As numerous as worlds. Now, how many dust motes are there in a shaft of sunlight? How many shafts of sunlight are there in the world? How many shafts of sunlight are there in the universe? That's how many worlds the Buddha saw. And I was told, and then I saw, that each of us, that I am a unique expression of the universe, and that you, everyone who's listening to us is a unique expression of the universe. And that universe, that unique expression is inside you. And by the way, I then had a thought, well, this unique expression of the universe is inside me, but Jim is in it. All the people who are listening to this podcast are in it, and I don't know what they're doing. And then I realized something else. Once you realize that the universe is inside you, you are not responsible for it. You are responsible for your choices.

Jim Fortin: Yeah, Don Xavier has always talked to me about that same thing, responsibility. And he said to me one time, a lot of people say life is a choice. He said, life is not a choice. Life is choice. The ultimate choice that you made in this totality of this experience was to incarnate in this body right now with where you are, you made that choice prior to incarnating and everything in your experience is a reflection of choice. So, life is not a choice. It is choice and we're doing it from 2nd to 2nd to 2nd as part of our experience.

Gary Zukav: Jim, this is everything that I've seen so far and been told and then seen, so let's have your brother in law.

Jim Fortin: He's not allowed to do anything in public. They, they, he's just not, you know, he's not allowed.

Gary Zukav: I understand. It's important when you're incarnate, you have a lineage. Yeah, his lineage is aboriginal. I don't know exactly what he's from.

Jim Fortin: He is a Shaman he is from Mexico, but his lineage is prior to him would be well, the, the lineage energetically is Toltec.

Gary Zukav: That's what I'm saying. It's going to have a name. It's going to have a culture. It's going to have ancestors.

Jim Fortin: Yes.

Gary Zukav: For my lineage, it's German and maybe some French and a lot of Slavic. It's European for other people. It's Asian. It's African. It's Indian. But whatever that lineage is, That's part of your incarnation.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Gary Zukav: Now when you see, when, when, when you consider that your soul that you are an incarnation of a part of your soul, and your soul has countless incarnations, and from its perspective, they're all happening at the same time. Yeah. Then I ask you, what is your lineage? Which of those countless incarnations, each of which has a lineage, is your lineage? You are all of them, and more

Jim Fortin: Amalgamation.

Gary Zukav: It's not an amalgamation and this time in the Earth School is not less than experience, in my experience, is not less than an experience of nonphysical reality. It is the densest form of energy, but it is holy. And it is important. And what we do in it is everything. Because what we do in it always happens in the now, and now is the portal to everything. Now is everything. And we experience it as you and I are talking now, in the earth school. The earth school is not a lesser place to be. It is not a punishment. It is, in my understanding, also, voluntary, and the choice to incarnate is an act, a dramatic act of spiritual responsibility, and you have made it. And yet, there are on the earth billions of people who are regretting that they are on this planet. Who are living lives of deprivation, hunger, and thirst, and humiliation, and torture? These are the things of our Earth.
These are the things of the Earth's goal also. And how did they get here? If the universe is compassionate, which it is, if the Earth's goal is a gift of compassion, which it is, how did these things come to be? We put them there. We, I put them there with each choice that I make of judgment, or brutality, or distance, or superiority, or inferiority. And they will remain there until we stop putting them there. And who is the we in my unique expression of the universe, except there is no I? This is the new consciousness that's emerging, and I hope that it's helpful or stimulating to hear some of my experiences of it. And if it's not If there's a part of your personality that says that's nonsense or closes the door, or you're going to hell, look at that. Use your emotional awareness, then make a responsible choice. One of the most wonderful mantras that I've has ever come to me is Let me see this without judgment. And I use it all the time because frightened parts of my personality are so good at judging.

Jim Fortin: Yeah, that's brain based though. Also, it's a vestige of our evolution and that the brain has to judge to discern. And my awareness is that we are evolving beyond the biologic. Well, we're, we're evolving beyond the biological, and if we keep going back into the judgment and the fear and all these kinds of things, they're vestiges of the physical body that no longer serve the evolution or the being for where we're going the multisensory beings.

Gary Zukav: There's a difference between judgment and discernment.

Jim Fortin: That's what I tell people, yeah, very much.

Gary Zukav: Discernment so judgment is not necessary for evolution. Discernment is simply distinguishing a this from a that. It's what happened. Judgment is the emotional charge. It's the yes, that's right, tell them. It's the no, that's heresy. It's the, that's nonsense, that's, Poop. That's new age fluff. That's the judgment. They are not the same. There is no karma created with discernment. There is karma created with every judgment.

Jim Fortin: That's what I had mentioned to people is the vestige of evolution is you had to discern what very, what berries were good to eat as opposed to poisonous berries and good berries. So we have to be able to discern, but when we bring the emotion in, we're judging and many of us are doing it from five, five D physical perceptions because we're creating ego advantage for judging other people, meaning it confers some advantage of me to say I'm better than you or this or that or whatever it might be. So that was my, my take on it. Okay. We're almost at the end of our time. I want to share a couple of things. It's a place that I hold my attention is. There's one phrase that daily just runs through my mind, and that is know myself as soul. For some reason, I am so preoccupied with that phrase, know myself as soul, whatever that means. And that's what I keep exploring is to know myself from that place. There's a lot of things you said I could, I could, you know, add to or whatever I won't. But I remember when I was in the hospital in 2020, Don Xavier called me in the very first day.
And he said, use your intention and your will to heal yourself. He goes, that is the biggest, the most abundant fabric in the universe is intention. And that's we do everything with that and he says you can use your intention and your will. That's how I heal is what he said about himself. That's how I heal myself is through my attention and our intention and my will. And then we have to look at where we're placing our attention relative to our intention and our will. Just some ancillary thoughts. He was sharing that he told me one time the day that the Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed became Buddha and Jesus and Mohammed were the days they recognized that they knew absolutely nothing because that's the day they became those beings. So, I'm still processing that one, but I've learned over the years, what you're saying is that we don't know anything. We, we try to analytically make evaluations about the world, but that's from our past history and our 3D experience. What do we really know when we have such a limited Perception of the physical world based upon the electromagnetic spectrum? So that was just one more. And I had a couple of more, but I won't, I won't go until now, but thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know that people have gotten great, great benefit. I get, I get comments every day, by the way, and I had not told you that. I'm sorry that people saying, I love that episode with Gary Zukav. I love, and it's very rare, but people will say, I have never heard of Gary, but I can't stop listening. I'm hooked on what he's saying.

Gary Zukav: So, thank you, Jim. If, if I may.

Jim Fortin: Please.

Gary Zukav: There, there is a way to begin to know what you know. Follow your meaning. Use that as your inner compass.

Jim Fortin: Okay.

Gary Zukav: And see what happens. In other words, what gives you meaning? I know that certain things are meaningless to me but they're meaningful to other people. Yeah. Why do some people why are some people passionate about French history and other people love mathematics and other people love to build things with their hands? And other people like to write poetry. Wherever your meaning goes, experiment with that. If you feel lost, you feel, what do I know? I know nothing. What does it mean to know nothing? How can I know when I know nothing? You're spinning when that happens. Use meaning your, your sense of meaning, not someone else's, your sense of meaning and see where it begins to take you.

Jim Fortin: For me, I don't even think anymore. I used to go in those circles. I used to call it being in the round room. And that's a phrase I use a lot is when you're in the round room, somebody will say, Gary, you're in the round room, sit in the corner. And then we go in circles looking for the corner of the round room. And that's what a lot of us humans do. And now I just, I don't think I see what I sense and what comes to me, because I know that if I get into my head on my, and I think about things I can be trapped forever in those labyrinths of the mind and past history and everything else. And I didn't really go back to what you're talking about. What do I feel in my heart and what meaning does this have to me at a soulful heart level? And I let that be my guide. Like when I reached out to you.

Okay. I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I've enjoyed doing it. Gary and I've talked a lot. We've become personal friends. We've invited each other to stay at our homes. Each other's homes and Gary want to do a lot more together and I'm sure we're probably going to do a lot more together. We work together really well. We speak the same language and we both have the heart to help as many people as we possibly can. So more will be coming from Gary. But until I bring more from Gary next, week's going to be a deep dive into the final episode. You just listened to. I don't take it apart even more. But if you're wanting more of Gary, then click the link in the show notes or wherever it might be. And spend that evening with Gary. Gary does I believe two calls per month where he spends time. Sharing with you guys and then answering any questions you might have. So, make sure you get registered with that. And if I know anything about Gary, I think it's $27, $37 bucks. Something like that. It's going to be extraordinary. Extraordinarily well-spent time. Okay, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you over on another episode. Stay well. Bye-bye.