You’re listening to the Transform Your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This is a podcast episode in a new series that I have for the next 30 days. And that series is called the Transformational Interview Series. What I’m doing is I’m interviewing people that have already been through TCP, the Transformational Coaching Program with me.

And this is not about TCP. This is about their transformation, things they were dealing with, things they have overcome. And they want to share their story with you about how also you can be, do and have more in life. So today we’re talking to Ruhl and I’m going to try to pronounce his last name and he was laughing at me earlier so I’ll let him pronounce it as well because I’m a stupid American.

I said is it Ostenberger and he said no but here’s his last name. So how do you pronounce it Ruhl and welcome. Thank you Jim. My last name is pronounced Ostenbruggen. Ostenbruggen.

Something like I just can’t get that R in the throat. We’ll just call you Ruhl. How about that? Go on a first name basis. That’s fine. That’s fine. Thank you.

We’re going to just kind of, they’re very relaxed, very informal. I want to hop around here a little bit. You said that when I put out the invitation for people that wanted to be on the podcast, your exact words were, “You wanted to give something back.” Yes.

What does that mean? Well, I did TCP with you. First of all, I listen every day to your podcast when I go on my bike to my work. I cycle for about 80 minutes, I put on your podcast and it really gives me a really good start of the day, a really positive start.

Secondary, after listening to a few podcasts, I decided to do TCP with you. It just had so much positive value and it added so much positive value to my life that when I saw your post where you were asking for somebody to share how, yeah, what kind of things that let them grow in TCP.

Well, I just wanted to do something back. I felt like this is what I want to do. I want to be of service. Thank you. And that’s what I was getting at being of service.

We’ll talk about that in a moment. Question here because this is a question on a lot of people’s minds. Many people that listen to the podcast, I’ve had people listen for five, six years, whatever, and they still won’t do anything different than listening to the podcast because they think the podcast is all they need.

Yeah. Do you think that’s the truth? No, I don’t. No. How come?

I think I mentioned it earlier to you, but in Holland sometimes we say you need to stick behind the door. It’s a very Dutch expression and actually what you translated it to was that you need skin in the game and in Holland we say you need to stick behind the door, you need skin in the game, you need to pay an amount or you need to put in a service or whatever.

Right. It’s something that makes you actually show up. Yeah. So let me ask you this.

Did I pay you to be here or did I tell you what to say today? No. No. Okay. Yeah.

I want to clarify that you’re not paid for being here. I’m not telling you what to say. As a matter of fact, I said say whatever you want to say on the podcast. But I want people listening to hear your story.

And what I see happening on the podcast over and over, is people saying, “Oh, I don’t need any more than the podcast because you give everything away on the podcast. Do you think I give everything away on the podcast?” I must admit, you give away a lot on the podcast, but not everything. I think what one of my biggest takeaways was from TCP, and I actually wrote this down before I came here to talk, is that after I paid well, the X amount for TCP, it just got me so driven to also get back some of the value because I put some value in and then you have, well, now that’s different for me because I also transformed that part, but you want your money’s worth, so better work your ass off.

So I’m going to say it like that, but you better work your ass off because you want it to be worth it. Yeah, and that’s that stick behind the door. You feel that you have to show up. You feel that you have to do the inner work because you want your money’s worth.

Yeah, let me ask you something on that. I’m sorry, please go ahead. No, no, no, no. And that sounds very superficial, but it is the way that it is and it actually helps you.

Yeah. And when I put out a call for people that wanted to be on the podcast, what caught my attention with you first was, and actually somebody next week as well, I believe, is that you talked about fear. Now if I remember correctly, didn’t you register for TCP and then immediately after you paid and you registered, was that you that got into fear like, oh my gosh, what have I, you did, right?

Okay, can you tell us that story about what you went through? Because our whole topic today is going to be, and it will apply to most people here, the topic today is going to be about fear and overcoming fear. I never thought that I would experience that right away, but I paid the X amount for TCP.

I don’t know if I should say this. It’s about, well, 3,000 euros. Well, I do everything in euros, but it’s some kind of the same in dollars. Right after that, there was quite some homework that I have to do.

And I have, right at that time, my daughter was about six months. I was getting up three times a night. So I didn’t have a lot of sleep and I still wanted to show up because, up because I paid my money and I wanted to make it worth. So I felt this great pressure to do everything.

I remember that I said it the right way and to get value out of the program. This is actually what I transformed due to the program because I already always had money worries, that amount was quite some money to me at the time. Yeah. So you can imagine kind of the pressure that I, well, maybe you can imagine, but you can, I think imagine what pressure I put on myself.

Yeah, a lot of people listening, they do the same thing. And let me ask you now, and I don’t know how you’re going to answer any of this. So we’re just gonna see where it’s going to go. First off, you know, I remember coaching because we had a few hundred people in the last TCP.

And of course I know you for the work we’re doing now. But I remember you just said, doing it the right way. Didn’t I coach you early on that wanted, because this will apply to a lot of people, they have to get it right. And everything’s gotta be the right way, or they can’t do it, or they gotta be the perfect student.

Dig into that if you will. It’s exactly that. I had basically an issue of that. I was taught by my father, if you do something, you better do it good the first time.

And I never knew that that was so deep ingrained in my identity, that it kind of blocked me also doing the homework for the TCP. And obviously, that wasn’t the only thing that blocked in my life because of that thought, because of that identity. Hang on.

It’s coming back now. Remember the first month, because I know all the students in TCP that show up. The first month, weren’t you like, “Oh my God, we’re doing so much work. Am I getting it right? Am I getting it right? This is hard.”

Weren’t you having a hard time like the first month? Exactly, yeah. And then like month number four, week number four, the week number five or six, you finally shifted and got over the hump. So I remember the first month that you were kind of what we call in the US a basket case, meaning get out of your head already, just stop thinking about it and keep moving.

So people listening, can you relate to that Ruhl that you had to do things right and you would get in your head about it and you made things really hard because you had to make it right? Yeah, I can totally relate to that also while I’m speaking right now I’m not kind of focused on how I pronounce the word because it’s great the words because this is not my native language, although I speak English every day, you know, I yeah I just want to be better than some Americans trust me on that so.

But I remember that it comes back now that when hard at TCP and I don’t hide anything. There is a lot of work to be done at TCP and we do it that way because we need to move your butt and we need to dig into a lot of things. And the first four weeks come like a hurricane, right?

And I remember I hit you hard, all of you guys hard the very first four weeks. And I remember now you were like what we call dog paddling in the US, then you were having a hard time keeping up, and it even affected your attitude a little bit. You weren’t in a bad attitude, but you’re like, “I’m drowning over here. Holy mackerel, how do I keep up?”

That’s exactly also what happened. I remember that at one moment we had a call, and this is very important. This is actually one thing that I thought about, and that I felt like this is really important to talk about, because at one moment we had a call and you actually said, “Ruhl, you’re an anxious person.”

And I don’t know if you meant it in general, but at the moment, you are right. But because I have, I think I have that from my past, I had shame on being fearful. And that led to me not seeing that I actually was in fear at the moment that I was fearful.

You were in shame about being fearful, which was like a double whammy, right? When I think when I was young, I was told two things. So as a man, you don’t cry and you also don’t show fear. And because of that, when I was fearful, I didn’t want to see it.

And when you said that, I actually got a little bit angry. I was like, how dare you call me an anxious person. I did x, y, z, I box, I kick box, I whatever. In my head, I was this person.

But then I let it like, I let it land like a little bit. And I also asked my wife, like, do you think I’m an anxious person? And well, she said, no, I don’t think you’re an anxious person. But what what got what what I got out of it was because I didn’t want to see it, I did not see it.

And it really, anxiousness and fear can have many forms. It can make you angry, it can make you doubting everything, it can make you withdraw from relationship or from connection, it can make you resign, it can make you avoid, it has many forms.

And I just didn’t see those forms because I didn’t want to see it. Notice what you said. A lot of people don’t recognize that whatever emotions we’re experiencing, we think we’re not something else or we are that emotion, but it could be a mask for something else, but we don’t see the mask.

And then if I tell people they’re wearing a mask, then because they’re kickboxers, they want to kick my ass because I’m like, you’re wearing a mask. And in the very first TCP, a woman named Nicole said to me, if you’re not crying or cussing at Jim and you’re not mad at him, you’re not getting your money’s worth.

Yeah. And as you know, my job is to show people shit they don’t want to see that they don’t even know is there. Exactly, exactly. And that’s your power.

Thank you for that. And so once you saw that in yourself, what changed? Well, first of all, I’ve forgotten about it because I’ve worked with so many people, but I know you guys and I’m working with you now. And I remember that shift from like the first four to five weeks when you were like, ah, you were tight.

And then you just opened up like a flower. What happened? First of all, when you notice, when somebody makes you notice something, first of all, I needed to sink in because I was still angry.

I was like, who the hell is Jim to tell me that blah, blah, blah, blah. So it was a lot of ego that I had to go through, of course. And then, then I gave it a chance. And then I thought, like, no, I, I paid Jim to tell me what I need to see and what I need to do.

So I took it very seriously. And then I started seeing it bit by bit. And then I actually, I let it be. And I, I began to observe myself.

And what I started seeing was like, oh, wait a minute, I’m not actually angry right now. Because it’s more, it feels more powerful to be angry. Yeah, they’re fair man, you’re in control of your anger. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was, I was thinking like, “Hey, I’m not fearful right now. I’m not angry right now. I’m actually fearful. Hey, wait a minute. I need to do something else.”

The thing is, when you think you’re angry and you’re actually fearful, you cannot give yourself what you need because you misinterpret yourself. So it’s very difficult. Yeah. And I want to just state there that anger actually is a byproduct from fear.

All anger has fear underneath it. I remember something you said here just a couple of minutes ago. I remember about 15 years ago, I was in a small, eight people were there. It was a, I think a $12,000 event and it was a transformational event.

The very first morning, one of the people there that was running the program, Dr. Laurie Emery, who’s a very good friend of mine today. She said X, Y, she said something. I don’t recall what it was. And I said, and I was the one in the center of the room.

So she was coaching me in front of everyone. And she said, well, you’re X, Y, Z. And I thought, I’m not X, Y, Z. And this is what she did because you can see me visually here.

She pointed at me with a very stern face and said, “I am not here to argue with you.” And I thought, well, shit, I paid $12,000. I shouldn’t be arguing. I should be listening to this person.

And I had that same experience is that we think we’re right all the time when we’re completely blind to something. But that’s one of the beauties of working like we’ve done is that I hold a mirror up for you guys and you can see what you can’t see and many times it pisses people off when somebody holds the mirror up, but with what you did when you’re like, wait, I need to look into this.

There’s something here that’s when we see ourself. Now, as a result of seeing yourself, what changes has your wife said she’s seen as a result of you seeing yourself? Of course. Before I went on this podcast, Jim, me and my wife we discuss everything.

And she also listens to you on the podcast. So when I said today, like, so we have a time difference. So about like five or six hours ago, I said like, okay, maybe I’m going on the podcast with Jim. And she says, oh, oh.

And then a few hours ago, I said, like, I’m going on the podcast with Jim. And she was like, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. (laughing) But what, so, so I asked my wife before on the podcast, I said, “Maybe it’s nice that you also state what kind of change you saw in me.”

And I have to, I’m grabbing my mobile right now as we speak, ’cause she wrote it to me, and she wrote– What’s her name? What’s her name? Cecilia. Tell Cecilia, thank you, because this is perfect. This is what I wanted people to hear, but mainly we look at ourselves and we don’t think when we hear, when they hear it from me, I’m kind of like the, the brother-in-law.

And after a while, people tune out, but they hear, but when they hear it from someone else, they’re like, oh, okay, I can do this. So please go ahead. What did she say? So she wrote, before I had the fear of believing in myself, in my own power, in my own inner intelligence.

And after I became more confident and started believing that I can change people’s lives because, you know, I’m also a coach. I want to be an entrepreneur, where I am an entrepreneur. I want to be more of an entrepreneur. And she said, well, I also started to create it, creating content and helping people discover themselves.

And it actually I became more assertive and less fearful in taking the lead or making decisions. And I became more centered. Well, she goes on and on. There’s a lot of changes. I’d like to hear it.

No, please. I’d like to hear it because people listening can relate to this. I became more centered, more aligned with my core and who I am and my Values because I learned my Values. And that was so important.

And that’s actually what you started with TCP Values. Yeah. That is, that is, yeah. Super. Yeah, everything starts at Values as I’ve talked about and you know people say will you share everything on the podcast?

No, I don’t we don’t even talk about Values as a matter of fact I consciously on the podcast don’t talk about what’s in TCP because I keep them separate and the reason why is I don’t want people to come in the TCP with already preconceived ideas from the podcast.

I want people to come in and I want to start stripping people literally mentally of the crap they’ve learned to start rebuilding. But an emotional question here, these are all adjectives and things she’s saying about you, and they’re all nouns and verbs and all that, but how has it changed your relationship with your wife?

Meaning how your change, how has that affected the marriage? How are you parent? Oh, well, those are two different questions, because how we parent is obviously a result of what a relationship is. Well, I think when I was more insecure, I would interpret things that she said differently, more negative towards myself, and that would give arguments completely unnecessary.

Sure. So in other words, when she would say things, you would internalize it because of all your fears. And what you weren’t even looking at is, oh, my God, my wife, my partner is rejecting me. She’s saying this, I’m not good enough is what I’m guessing was going on subconsciously.

So what a big one was, what a big one was. And this was pure fear was that my relationship with money was not good. Every time that we would discuss money issues or planning, going on a trip, I would tense up and I would go, I would avoid or I would say like, “No, I don’t feel it right now.”

And so we never talked about money. So you didn’t fight about it? Well, we talked about money, but we had to sit next to each other and it was tense. And that’s not how you, well, other topics we could discuss easily, but but money was a problem.

What I’m wondering is when she started talking about money, how much fear subconsciously could you feel coming into your body? And then you’re projecting this in the communication with her. And I have to say also, Ruhl, that if you’re experiencing that, I don’t know if you’ve talked to your wife about this yet, but because you were coming to the relationship so anxious, there’s that word again, and fearful, think about, and TCP, I asked you guys, what does your partner give up to be in a relationship with you?

Did that question ever hit you or dawn on you? It hit me. It hit me hard because, and it was, and it was too silent, of course, because at the same time, I was also trying to find back my own value. So I had to be mild to myself.

But when you asked that question, it was like, oh my God, it’s super hard to talk with me. And it was hard to recognize because one of my top Values is also connection. It’s really high and it means connection to myself but also connection to the people around me.

I love feeling connected. Sure. And also connection to my higher self. But when you ask that question, it was like, then it dawned on me like, oh wow, that must be hard.

That must be hard. I also forgave myself right after it because, you know, we get our parents and our fears also because of out of our identities and that’s mostly software that’s imprinted by our parents and when I look at my parents, I’m way better off because I worked on a lot of stuff that, well, they didn’t work on obviously.

And that’s also a product of their time, because I think nowadays it’s much more acceptable to go to a psychologist, at least here in Holland, and they didn’t have it in their time. But I could clearly see like, okay, this is not easy for her. Is the marriage happier? Yes.

Feels better. Yeah? It’s a lot better. It’s a lot more relaxed. And of course, our daughter in July turned one, so when you receive a child, your identity shifts anyway.

To the child, right. You become a parent and that also comes with a lot of stress. If you were already fearful, which was the case in my case, then receiving a child will also spark a lot of questions. For example, am I a good enough father?

And that’s a big one, actually. There was a big one for me, actually. Notice the fear-based theme back then also. Am I a good enough father is a fear-based question, right?

How do you feel now about being a father? I feel great. Yeah, I can just, well, about being a father, I had, I think I had for the first six to eight months, I really, you know, I felt not good enough because, and that was pure my interpretation, because what happens is when a child gets born, because it has been in the womb for nine months, it will automatically draw more towards the mother than towards the father.

That’s what I heard. It’s just what it is. But in my interpretation, because there was already deceit that said, “I’m not good enough,” I interpreted it as like, “Oh, see, she draws through the mother. I’m not a good enough father because you see what you want to see and now I can really value myself and by that, I can honestly say to myself like, “I’m doing a pretty good damn job as a father and I feel proud of myself.”

And by saying that, I can also be more present with my daughter and I can enjoy. And that was a really big thing that I got out of TCP, being in the here and now, instead of being in the future or dwelling on the past. Which all the fear is in the present. I mean, I’m sorry, in the future or the past, it’s not in the present.

We are manufacturing it in the present. So you said something really important that I want people to hear is these are the most important years of your daughter’s life right now. I mean, she’s literally watching you like a video and audio camera, and she’s learning how to be in the world.

And when you’re present, she’s learning connection. She’s learning safety. She’s learning love. She’s learning acceptance.

But if you’re in the fear, you have to think about, “What am I telegraphing to her when I’m around her, and what am I teaching her about the world?” Exactly. Great job on that. Sorry, go ahead.

No, no, no, no, no. I wanted to say connection is one of my highest Values. And this is obviously something that we learn in TCP is that we look for our Values and we prioritize them. And at first, I prioritized them a little bit different but I recently went through the homework and I put connection right at the top because it’s one of the biggest Values together where it’s serving others.

Notice the confrontation you had in your Values before TCP, which many people listening have this very same thing going on. You have one high Value, which is connection. And the other high Value is that you’re valuing the fear and the safety and not opening up.

So your two Values, one that you’re living a lot is the fear is in conflict with your highest Value. Then we don’t know our Values are in conflict and we’re like, why do I not feel good about this? Why am I hiding from this? What’s wrong with me?

And we have conflicting Values. So you recognized that to live the highest Value or one of your highest Values of connection, you have to get out of the fear. Is that a fair statement? Yeah, that is a fair statement.

And I would say that before I came into TCP, before I met my wife, I already had a problem. That tension was already there. Because I dated a lot. You could say that I was kind of a serial dater back then, and I’m not proud of it to say it, but it was what it was.

Because whenever things would be real, or whenever a woman would say like, okay, I value you, I want to take the next step, I would get into fear because it came too close because I would get all kinds of things in my mind and then I would want to get out of there.

The fair statement is so, connection was always a very, very big Value that I had. I mean, I’m a super sensitive guy and I embrace that fully. But also, the fear would literally hold back on my relationships, of having like a nice intimate relationship.

And that literally was really shitty for a lot of years. Yeah, and I would assume obviously because now you’re showing up differently. That’s why I already knew before I asked you because I do this every day, is that once you literally transcended that, transformed that, overcame all that fear and all that anxiety and all those kind of things, then you’re now in a place to have a better and healthier relationship with your wife.

And then both of you as parents literally translate that to your daughter. Okay, so I appreciate you sharing all that. Let’s shift to business for a moment. You are currently transitioning out of being a social worker, right?

Well, I’m trying to, yes. Yes. That’s a fair statement. Yes. You are transitioning, not trying.

You are in the process. There’s no trying. There’s only doing. There’s only doing.

Yes. So you’re in the process of that. But you said something a lot of, if not most people listening can relate to. You said fear of believing in myself.

I don’t always hear it that way. I hear people say fear, and I hear people saying about, then I hear people saying believing in themselves. But rarely do I hear it said that way, fear of believing in myself. What does that mean?

Well, I think this was what my wife said about me that you picked it up there. If I would translate it about how I felt about it, is that I feared that that was not good enough. That was my fear. Where do you think you got that?

I got that from my parents. Your dad, because everything had to be probably perfect, right? Everything had to be done well. Yeah.

And also for my mom, because my mom also had very low self-worth. And my parents both found themselves, I guess, on very low self-worth. I mean, that’s, and I got it from both of them.

Yeah. How do you feel about yourself today? A lot better. You made some examples of how feeling better, how does that translate into your behaviors?

What things are you doing now that you wouldn’t have done before because you didn’t feel good enough to do it or believed you were good enough to do it? Just like I said, I think I said it before, I would always start something and then when things got real, so when you have to promote yourself, I would begin to doubt all that I did.

And then I wanted to change everything that I built because of a deep sense of insecurity and doubt. And then I was basically back on square one. So I never promoted myself. And now I have a lot less problems with promoting myself.

Sometimes it just flips out like, hey, this is what I do. I love what I’m doing. And this is what I’m building, because I’m just doing that and also recording videos, I get actually very easily into contact with people who are interested in my content that I’m making for my company.

Does that surprise you? Yeah. Because I never experienced it like that. It just flows so easily, like, okay, yeah.

So it was in you all the time, but you wouldn’t show people that it was in you because you were afraid. What were you afraid of? I think I was afraid of, well, turning up like a fraud. But deep down I think I was afraid of, I was afraid of feeling fear and it sounds very strange, but strange, but I analyzed it.

I was afraid of the pressure to perform that people would say, “Who are you? Tell me, you’re the expert, so now prove it.” I was very afraid of that pressure. I don’t want that pressure.

I don’t want that heat on me, so I avoided that for many years, but now I feel that that pressure is actually good, that that kind of, well, to speak in an analogy, that that actually forges the steel. You first have to heat it up to transform.

So now I’m happy to heat it up. That’s a reversal from where you were when I met you. You were turning it down. I mean, I mean I’m turning it up.

No, no, no. Cover it up. Cover it. It’s way too hot.

And now I’m saying, like, okay, let it mend and put some fire on it and see where it’s now. I’m also and I was thinking of this like I want to I think I think I shifted something in TCP and it was a very it was a moment that in hindsight I think like, what did I worry about?

But I think you also joked about this in TCP. I don’t know if you remember, but right at when we started with TCP, after four weeks, I had this fallout with a tax person that was doing the taxes for my business. And she treated me like trash.

But I just kept on ruminating in my head between fear and anger like, “She has to do my taxes.” And she didn’t do my taxes of 2023 and this woman was really emotional and the things that she said to me went way too far, were super unprofessional.

But I keep telling to myself, “What if she messes up with my taxes and what if she tries something that brings me into great trouble.” And I remember that I thought like, okay, Jim said in these kinds of things, do the Master Thought Formula. And I did the Master Thought Formula and at that moment I thought like, well, while visualizing that I was on this tall building and could look where I wanted to go.

I thought like, I don’t want to have these problems at all. I want to feel peace and calm. So what do I need to do? Get another tax person, get rid of this.

And then I thought a little bit like, but what if? And then I said to myself, well, if anything, any drama happens, I trust myself to deal with I’m going to deal with that. And that’s how I think right now, it’s like, okay, we have to go from A to B, and whatever happens between A and B, I’m going to deal with it.

I definitely want to dig into that. What would you have done? What do you speculate you would have done if we had never met? I think that I wouldn’t have been ruminating way too long about this, and then maybe kind of let it go on until it was too unbearable, too dramatic to watch, and then kind of give that tax person the power to end it, just to let it go out of your hand.

And I think I would have dealt it like that. So give the other person the decision power to end it. So now, what would you do if that happened tomorrow if somebody knew? I would think, okay, first of all, why is this happening?

Just make an analysis if it is my fault or it’s the other person’s fault. I need to take responsibility, of course, first. And then when I would figure out, okay, this is not a good match, go to another one immediately.

Operative word there. We don’t talk a lot about it on the podcast if even at all. We spend all of TCP in the immersion of responsibility you must become responsible for your own life your own choice your own decisions and your own interpretations. Was there ever a time in our time together?

Where you felt that shift and you were conscious of it eliminating fear? No. I’m sorry, Jim, but I have to be very blatant. Jim, you have to know that at the time that I was with TCP with you, I was waking up three times a night, maybe four, maybe five, to get my daughter out of bed.

So I was later on, I noticed that I was immensely sleep deprived. So part of my conscience was not really there to, well, I think actually that after I made a decision on a tax person and I did it so methodically that I thought like, okay, I just needed a decision to make a decision and I deal with whatever comes after.

I feel I’m strong enough to deal with that. I’m going to work my butt off if that happens. Then I thought like, okay, this is your shift. I’m going to do this more.

Yeah. And then as I’ve always said in TCP, once you do it more, you’ll learn it’s no big deal. Exactly. But you’ve got to do it the first time to learn it’s no big deal.

And then you do it more and you’re like, I don’t even think about that anymore. No. Let’s start wrapping up. Let’s go here.

Let’s say you’re sitting down with one of your best friends and they’re in a lot of fear about starting a business, just changing life. And they said, “Ruhl, I’m still a lot of fear about X, Y, Z in my life.” Of course, that’s a different, you know, they can pick any scenario they want, anybody listening can pick any scenario.

But what would you do if they said, “I’m afraid.” What would you start saying to them? Start asking to them? First of all, I would, well, that’s just me.

I would say that I can relate. I would also give a personal example, like I’m doing right now. So I would basically tell, in other words, that it’s okay to feel fear, but it’s not okay to make decisions based on fear.

So I would ask, like, if you wouldn’t have fear, what would you do? And of course, this was one of the questions that you always ask, like, if you stay in this fear and you let it determine your life. How would your life look in one year or two years or three years and what would you lose by letting your life be determined by that fear?

And I actually wrote down also, I took a lot of notes. I’d love to hear it because I was going to ask you how did that translate into your life? At one moment I thought of this and I thought like life is not forever and I love first of all I love myself too much not to I wrote this down I wrote down I love myself too much not to grant myself a life of not reaching my highest potential so that’s a fear of yours is not reaching what you mean exactly.

Exactly, but that fear, and I think it was a podcast that you made that I listened, is that what resonates, and again, connection resonates, is the highest Value that resonates to me. You said that if you want to grow spiritually, you have to learn how to deal with fear.

I did. Yeah, a lot of that. Because you cannot grow spiritually if you let yourself be limited by fear. And that resonated so deeply inside of me that I thought, like, he’s so right.

You weren’t cussing at me on that one. But the ego knows fear. That’s a human manufacture. But the soul doesn’t know fear.

And when we get into the ego and the fear, we cut off all communication from the soul that can be our guidance, opening our heart or creating what we want to create in life. Yeah, and when I look back on my life, and I think I’m not the only one who does this, I’m always regretting the moments that I let fear lead me and not take decisions earlier.

It’s not that I have a lot of regret because I don’t nowadays because I feel I’m in my power right now. That’s how it feels. But when I was still into fear, that regret was even bigger. But now I feel like I’ve come more loose from fear.

I don’t have that regret so much. Yeah, I think that was a very big factor when I still was struggling more with fear. So when you enrolled in TCP and what I’m getting at is people are afraid to do new things and especially if they have to invest money.

When you enrolled in TCP, you were fearful. Yes. Now, something else came up today that you could make happen if you wanted, but fear came up, but you felt like you had to do it.

What would you do now differently? Even though you enrolled in TCP, how would you approach it now, as opposed to like four months ago when I met you? So if I would enter TCP now, what would I do differently?

No, no, no, no, I know, this is very important is that you’re the only one who can step out of your own comfort zone. But I developed more of a kind of a playful attitude in dealing with that. And that helps.

Which I’ve often said in TCP, life is a roller coaster. You’ve got to look at it that way and it’s fun. It’s up and it’s down, but you’re on the roller coaster. Yeah.

And once you have like a very positive experience with dealing with fear, it kind of becomes like, it’s not an addiction, but you kind of want to try it again. Like a kid who plays with stuff. You’re like, “Hey, this is something new. I want to do this more.”

Yeah. And then the more you do it, the more fun you have with it and more of the feel. Like, what fear did I use to have? Yeah.

Ruhl, we need to start wrapping up here. What’s the final thought you would like to share with people? Something you want them to know, something maybe, no matter how personal, your experience with me, your shift, whatever, what is it that you want people to take from our time today?

I would say that when you are in fear, just map out what that fear is going to do for you in the next year or the next three years and what it takes away from you. And then it will be clear, because on the short run, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to you probably, but on the long run, it will make sense to you how destructive it actually is.

Wow, that’s a really good response. And I think you’ve already answered the last question I’m going to ask you. But if somebody said, “Hey, Ruhl, I heard about this TCP program. I’m a little afraid. I can afford it. I can’t afford it. I’m a little afraid to do it. Should I do it, Ruhl?”

What would you say? Yeah, you definitely should do it because it will propel your being in a much more positive state. And next to it, it will give you the tools to earn that money back in a way that aligns to you.

I love that. That’s what people don’t recognize. When you evolve and grow and you become more, it’s a lot easier to make money and you’re not struggling with money. Once you step in, which a word that you use, which I often use, once you find and you step into your power, all these limitations and fears that we have start to fall away.

Ruhl, I could not have asked for a better conversation, a visit with somebody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here and sharing today.

And for you guys listening, if you would like to get on the TCP wait list, there’s no obligation, go to jimfortin.com/tcp as in Tom, C as in Cat, P as in Paul. jimfortin.com that will put you on the waiting list and then you’ll be apprised of upcoming trainings we have and everything else and even when the doors open for TCP Ruhl.

Where would you like people to find more about you? Well, the website is not fully up and running, but I’m working on it, but you can go to… Wait, wait, it’s not perfect yet. You mean it’s not perfect.

You got me, Jim, you got me. Good job. Yes. Great job.

It’s not perfect yet, but I’m definitely not gonna make it perfect, Jim. It’s gonna be WWW, Magnetic Match Formula. And it’s an online program with coaching in which I help people to unblock their limitations to attract a loving relationship in their lives.

And I’m very, very enthusiastic about that. And we’ll drop, by the way, that is really needed, magneticmatchformula.com. And the reason it’s really needed, you’ve been at TCP, we have people from all around the world. And the US, the divorce rate is like 52%.

People don’t even know themselves or how to be in a relationship. And in Europe, you know, you’re from Holland, we’ve had thousands of Europeans inside TCP and a lot of the European cultures, beautiful people, you have an amazing heart. A lot of people in TCP are like Germans and they’re very stalwart and very process oriented and they get married because that’s what we’re supposed to do but their whole relationship is a process and walls and limitations and they’re never open and vulnerable and open their hearts with their own partners out of fear.

So what you do, I endorse 100%. Again, www.magneticmatchformula.com. Magnetic Match Formula. You guys go check that out.

Ruhl, thank you for being here and for you guys that want to be on the TCP wait list, jimfortin.com/tcp. Thanks for listening, guys. We’ll catch you over on the next episode. Bye. Bye.