Hi, I’m Jim Fortin and you’re about to start transforming your life from the inside out with this podcast. I’m widely considered the leader in subconscious transformation and I’ve coached super achievers all around the world for over 25 years. Here, you’re going to find no rah rah motivation and no hype because this podcast is a combination of brain science, transformational psychology and ancient wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you’ve never thought possible. 
 
If you’re wanting a lot more in life, to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive, and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you because you’re going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you. I’m glad you’re here. 
 
You know, I’ve known you for some time and it’s been an absolute pleasure having you in my life and chatting with you and getting to know you. And I know something that you talk about. We talk about it personally, but in your last book, the universal human, you talk about all the changes coming to the planet and a lot of people in the world, as we look out on the world, they’re seeing all these changes that you’re talking about happening. Gary, what is happening in the world spiritually and energetically? 
 
Everything. Everything. This is not a passing trend. This is not something from one generation or the other or any combination. This is an epic, unprecedented transformation in the human consciousness, the consciousness of the entire human species. This has never happened before. 
 
When you say, I’m sorry to interrupt. I’m just looking for entry points in here to kind of take that apart even more because that’s a big statement. 
 
Gary Zukav (01:59.176) 
biggest statement in the world. It’s the biggest statement in the earth school. This is it, Jim. We have a new consciousness that is emerging very fast within a few human generations. The last human consciousness, the old one, evolved over 300,000 years. And this one’s happening within three generations. That’s faster than an eye blink. That’s faster than a heartbeat. 
 
compared to the previous experience of evolutionary time. This is what we’re in, and it’s good news. It’s all of it, good news. But it’s going to take some work. 
 
Yeah, that’s where I want to go because you say it’s good news and Don Javier has talked about this for many years with me and he and I even had a call recently and I said, you know, I’ve been hearing you talk about this for 30 years now. I never thought I would move this quick. And he goes, well, guess what? We are in it. We’re not beginning it. We’re not at the end. We are right smack dab in the middle of it. I want to go back here though, very quickly, Gary, you said last time it took 300,000 years. 
 
What was that consciousness that transformed into the current consciousness and why is it so quick this time as opposed to last time? 
 
The old consciousness was confined to the five senses. That is, if you had an experience and it couldn’t be located with any of the five senses, then it was considered your imagination or a fantasy or an illusion. In the old consciousness, the understanding of power was the ability to manipulate and to control. That’s external power. All of that’s changed. The new consciousness is not limited 
 
Gary Zukav (03:51.32) 
to the five senses. In other words, we are beginning to experience some of the processes of non-physical reality. It’s becoming our reality. That doesn’t mean that it’s new. It means that our awareness is expanding to include aspects of a larger reality that it didn’t include before. And in the new consciousness, there is a new understanding and experience of power. 
 
And that is the alignment of your personality with your soul. Your soul is what you are. Your soul is immortal and you are not. You are a personality. Yet this is the first time that the entire human species as one is becoming aware, individual by individual, of itself. Individuals are becoming aware of themselves as both. 
 
personalities and souls simultaneously. And power is now the alignment of your personality with your soul, with harmony and cooperation and sharing and reverence for life. In other words, we’re now beginning to see power and to experience power as the alignment of the mortal aspect of yourself with the immortal aspect of yourself. That’s 
 
a big change. And there are things in this new consciousness that have always been known. Reincarnation is one of them. Billions of people know that word. All Hindus, all Buddhists, not many of them really take it seriously, or they would take a great deal more care in choosing what they’re doing and what they’re creating. But now, reincarnation is becoming 
 
an aspect of ourselves. We know now. And by the way, we are midway through this transformation. That means there are about four billion people in whom the new consciousness is emerging and there are about that many people in whom it’s not. How can you tell the difference? It’s so easy. Jim, if I ask you, and I’ll ask you now, are you more than a mind and a body? 
 
Jim Fortin (06:18.893) 
Yeah. 
 
Of course you are. 
 
mind that has a body. I’m not a body that has a mind in my perspective. 
 
However you want to look at it, if I ask that question to someone with the old consciousness, are you more than a body and a mind? He’d say, what else is there? That’s how big this transformation is. And it is really remarkable. And it’s taking us in remarkable ways. I used to think that this transformation in consciousness was bringing 
 
to me unimaginable experiences, and then I became them. And that’s what’s happening to all of us. 
 
Jim Fortin (07:04.238) 
Let me ask you a question, Gary. In any morning follows any Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce or Baba Venga from the 1910s, there were, are the Hopis, the Kachina prophecies, which now they’re talking about Atlas one, two, and three are the fulfillment of a Kachina prophecy. That’s saying very similar to what you’re saying is that a shift is coming in humanity. But the question is, I’m sure people are wondering is, do I have a choice in this shift? And what if I don’t? 
 
want to shift. So what happens with that? Meaning people that let’s say that that really enjoy perhaps living in their ego or the thing that the external artificial power and they enjoy that. What happens? Say I’m opting out. 
 
I didn’t say the power was artificial. said it was external. That’s the ability to manipulate it to control. That is no longer our understanding, the understanding and the experience from the perception of the new consciousness of power. Now power is alignment of the personality with the soul and the intentions of the soul are harmony and cooperation and sharing and reverence for life. 
 
What if I don’t want the new consciousness? That’s like waking up in the morning and seeing the sunrise and saying, I don’t think I want this to happen. Well, what are you going to do about it? There it is. You’ve spent your life in the darkness at night, and now you’re experiencing a sunrise. And you’re saying, I don’t know if I’m going to like this or not. Doesn’t make any difference. That is not the question. The question is, 
 
Not what has happened in the past, not what the prophecies are, although there are prophecies of this, many. But what’s happening in you? That’s the important thing. What’s happening in you now? There isn’t any other time that it’s ever going to happen. There isn’t any other time that it ever has happened. And then there isn’t any other time that it ever will happen. It’s happening now. What is happening in you? 
 
Gary Zukav (09:20.664) 
That’s what we’re here to discuss. In the new consciousness, old goals are not as attractive, and some of them are not attractive at all. And old ways of achieving them don’t work. They make things even worse. This is where we are now. We are becoming aware of ourselves as powerful and creative, compassionate and loving spirits. 
 
Let me ask you a question as we look out into the world, the world that we observe with the five senses and we see world political leaders fighting for territory and resources and power and power grabs. guess the question that I want to ask is, okay, so you’re saying this is like the sun. You’re not going to stop it from coming up. When do we start seeing this take effect at different levels of consciousness with the entire race? 
 
So the beings that are doing these power grabs and control and money and ego, when do we start seeing that fall away? Because I think we’re seeing it starting to collapse, but when do we see a change? 
 
when you change. Jim, is it unusual to see people who are struggling to manipulate and to control, who are thinking only of themselves, who are limited to only what their five senses can perceive? You don’t have to look outside in the world to see that. Look inside you. You’re thinking that when is this going to happen? It is happening. Where is it going to happen? It’s happening in you. 
 
Why look outside for it? As you begin to create real power, authentic power, you begin to realize that the love and fear in the world that you want to change are the same love and fear in you. So if you want to change it in the world, change it where you have traction, where you can do it, change it in yourself. There is in the old consciousness an uncrossable, unclimbable barrier. 
 
Gary Zukav (11:31.66) 
between in here and out there. That barrier doesn’t exist in the new consciousness. It’s not a part of the new consciousness. From the old consciousness, it’s absurd to think that you can change the world by changing yourself. From the perspective of the new consciousness, there’s no other way you can do it. 
 
Let me ask a more tangible question then. So to me, I’m on that same page with you. To me, it sounds like Gandhi’s be the change you want to see in the world. We have to be that in ourself. But then we look out into the world and we say, you know, we can see, for example, Vladimir Putin and things that are happening in Ukraine. 
 
You’re just making an assumption, Jim, that misses the point, if I may. You say, when we look out into the world, when we look out into the world, you can’t look out into a world that exists independently of you. In other words, we’re talking about spiritual development. But if you’re looking at it the way you’re looking at it, you’re thinking that you can stand outside of the universe, observe it. 
 
and understand it, you can do none of those things because you are it. 
 
So practical application, if that’s possible, is what’s been taught to me. 
 
Gary Zukav (12:57.326) 
Spiritual growth is practical. It’s all practical. It’s nothing but practical application. It’s learning to distinguish within yourself between love and fear and choose love no matter what’s happening inside of you, no matter what Valdimir Putin is doing or what’s happening inside of you, whether you’re feeling joy and grounded and as though the eternal spring has just come or you’re feeling depressed or manic. 
 
or you want to kill someone or you want to kill yourself. All spirituality is practical. Gandhi said something similar to this. He understood its essence. He said, it’s a great mystery that when I change my attitude, the attitude of the world changes too. He did not say be the change. I believe that was probably his grandson, Arun, on their website that said that. Gandhi is one of my heroes. I love studying Gandhi. 
 
and how he was in the world and what he did in the world. Now, we have before us the choice, moment by moment, between love and fear. Let me define that. Fear is that parts of our personality that we experience as anger, judgment, resentment, overwhelm, anxiety, competitiveness. 
 
superiority, inferiority, the list is long. All of these are experiences of fear. From the perspective of the old consciousness, our personality is one thing, and sometimes it’s happy and sometimes it’s sad, sometimes it’s manic and sometimes it’s depressed. From the perspective of the new consciousness, each of these emotional experiences comes from a part of our personality. 
 
And it has many parts. When you experience within yourself a frightened part of your personality, any of these experiences that I’ve just mentioned, that is a frightened part of your personality. I’d like to explain how to create authentic power. Whenever you have an emotional experience, and especially a painful one, look inside yourself. 
 
Gary Zukav (15:25.582) 
Don’t look at the world. Don’t look outside. That’s what the old consciousness did and does, because it considers the world to be the cause of its pain and its joy. But it’s not. The world activates internal dynamics in you, and they cause your emotional experiences. I’ve been calling these internal dynamics thus far frightened parts of your personality. 
 
There are other internal dynamics too. They are loving parts of your personality. They originate in love. The frightened parts of your personality are painful to experience. So when you look inside yourself, when you have an experience like fear or jealousy or competitiveness or resentment, put your attention into your energy processing centers. Put it that way. Your throat, your chest. 
 
in your solar plexus area and look for physical sensations, physical sensations, not I’m happy, I’m sad, I’m depressed, but sensations such as aching, throbbing, stinging, stabbing, burning, churning, compression, expanding, hot, cold, like when you hit your thumb with a hammer when you’re aiming for the nail, that. 
 
hurts, that hurts. That’s a physical sensation. And your painful physical experiences hurt that much, and you’ll learn how to experience them that way. You must, if you’re going to understand them and challenge them. There’s no must, by the way. You must do this, you must do that. There are causes and there are effects. Now, by the way, now at the beginning of the launch of your new orientation, 
 
and of our talk together on it, I want to say, I do not expect anyone listening to us or hearing us to accept what I have to say or what I will say as so simply because I say it. I suggest on the contrary that you don’t do that with me or with anyone. Instead, if I say anything that you resonate with, experiment. 
 
Gary Zukav (17:51.214) 
Try it on in your life. See what it produces. And if it produces something that you like that’s positive, experiment some more. That’s what you have a life for. And if it doesn’t, let it go. Don’t try to wear a shoe that pinches. So what I’m saying now is that your personality has many parts, some originating in fear and some in love. Those that originate in fear that I’ve mentioned, 
 
are all painful because when you look inside your body in your energy processing centers, look for physical sensations like the ones I’ve just described, aching, throbbing, stinging, stabbing. For example, if you’re jealous, you can look inside your chest and you may, I’ll just make this up hypothetically, you might be able to, here’s what you might find. I feel aching. 
 
in the lower left portion of my chest and I feel a stinging or a stabbing in the upper right portion. I feel like a band is contracting across my chest area. And in my solar plexus area, I feel a burning across the top of it. And in my throat area, I feel a contraction. That’s an energy processing center. And you can say, this is a good example. 
 
In the East, these energy processing centers are called chakras. But I’m using the English name, not a Sanskrit name. You have seven of them in total. But I’m mentioning these three, throat, chest, and solar plexus, because they are for me, and I think for many people, the easiest ones to fill initially, to fill physical sensations in. So you needed a drink of water, you felt yourself coughing, like that. 
 
This chakra has to do with communication, this energy processing center. And when you feel, or you have a frightened part of your personality that feels difficult to communicating, for example, you feel that what you have to say, you’re not able to say as clearly as you want, or even express it at all. Or that if you could, people wouldn’t understand you. In that case, there is a blockage of energy in this energy processing center. And you’ll find that 
 
Gary Zukav (20:20.91) 
you have difficulty communicating. For example, when I decided I was going to leave Harvard and I told the dean, I’m going to leave. And he said, well, we’ll hold a place for you. And I said, you don’t have to, I’m leaving. He said, well, we’ll hold it anyway. And then he asked me a question. said, have you told your father? And I told the dean, I told my roommates, I told myself, but I hadn’t told my dad. 
 
No one in our family had ever gone to college. 
 
You went to Harvard. 
 
went to Harvard and I was going to quit in my junior year. And so I went home to Pittsburgh, Kansas and I said, dad! 
 
That’s all I can get out. I could. 
 
Gary Zukav (21:11.406) 
couldn’t, I didn’t have any more voice than that. That is a constriction in the fifth chakra having to do with communication. The fourth chakra, which I’ve described as your chest area, your energy processing center there has to do with relationships, with connection, with other people. The third chakra, the third energy processing center has to do with your ability to do what you need to do in the world to pay the rent to, buy food. 
 
to accomplish what you want. When energy is moving through your head, 
 
There’s an energy processing center here and it goes down through your body to the base of your torso and then up again and it passes through each of these energy processing centers. And as it does, it’s processed. And if it’s processed in fear and doubt, it produces painful physical sensations in those areas. And you’re releasing energy, your energy, in fear and doubt. And while you’re… 
 
experiencing these physical sensations, look at the thoughts that this part of your personality is thinking. It’ll always be thinking judgmental and critical thoughts, such as, I already know all this. Why am I even here? I could be teaching this. Or, I’ll never understand all this. Everyone here is smarter than I am. They already know it and I’m never going to be able to grasp it. Or, he’s so stupid. Or, 
 
I’m so stupid. These are the thoughts and the physical sensations that frightened parts of your personality think and feel. And when you discover in yourself painful physical sensations in any of your energy processing centers and these kind of critical judgmental thoughts, you know that a frightened part of your personality is active. And this is important information. 
 
Gary Zukav (23:15.586) 
Because whenever you act or speak from a frightened part of your personality, you create painful and unhealthy and destructive consequences for yourself. By consequences, I mean experiences for yourself. Now, when you look inside and you find good feeling physical sensations, the kind you want more of, and you look at the thoughts that you’re having, 
 
That’s a loving part of your personality. There are always thoughts of gratitude or appreciation or caring or contentment or patience or awe of the universe. And these are the experiences that we have when a loving part of our personality is active. And this is important information too, because when you act from a loving part of your personality, you also create consequences, but they’re the opposite. 
 
They are healthy, constructive, open, vital, energetic, connected, brilliant, exciting, vibrant experiences for yourself. So what I’ve described so far is emotional awareness. There are two tools in creating authentic power, emotional awareness and responsible choice. This is emotional awareness. You use your body. 
 
You look inside yourself and you determine if you’re experiencing a frighten or a loving part of your personality somatically in terms of your body and it will never lie to you. So once you know the difference between love and fear, this puts you in a very powerful place because you can choose between them. Five sensory humans couldn’t do that. Five sensory humans, if they’re angry like I was for much of my life, 
 
I didn’t think that’s this part, that part. I was just angry. And I didn’t care who knew. I would tell people, yeah, I’m angry. I’ve always been angry. I always will be angry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. But we’re multisensory now. We’re not confined to the five senses. I say multisensory because the five senses are different aspects of a single sensory system whose object of detection is physical reality. Now we have another. 
 
Gary Zukav (25:44.684) 
sensory system. We’re multi-sensory. So when you find yourself in a frightened part of your personality, judging, feeling inferior and needing to please, or feeling superior and entitled, you know that if you act on that, you’re going to create painful consequences, experiences for yourself. So when you find yourself in a frightened part of your personality, 
 
Use your volition, your free will, to move your attention into a loving part of your personality. A time when you were loved or loving and you knew it. It could have been with a child, with a partner, with a grandparent, but you knew you were loved and loving. I know for me, one place that is a go-to place for me is my father. When I’d come home from college or 
 
come home from the Army to our little town, Pittsburgh, Kansas, to our little house. And I’d knock on the door and I’d hear my mom inside saying, it’s scary, it’s scary. And I knew I was loved. And then she’d open the door and I’d walk in and my dad could still walk in and he rounded a corner from a hall and came into the living room and his face was radiant. It was beaming with love for his son. Jim, that’s… 
 
That’s love that goes deeper than a lifetime. That’s love that is deep. And by the way, I had a very difficult time with my dad and he with me. I hated him at one time. That’s another story. It has a wonderful ending. I use that experience as a way to return to a loving part of my personality or to visit it. 
 
If you want to share the story with your father, I’d love to hear it. You’ve never told me that story. 
 
Gary Zukav (27:45.442) 
Well, I like to stay with creating authentic power. And my dad enters his story in a lot of ways, but one of them is as an example of a memory that I use to go to a loving part of my personality while I’m experiencing a frightened part, while I’m jealous or while I’m resentful or while I’m feeling superior and entitled. And I can recognize that through using my emotional awareness. 
 
In that time, in that moment, I use my willpower to take myself into a loving part of my personality, a time when I was loved and loving, and I was using these memories of my father as an example of that for me. You have your own and use them. Go back to that time when you were loved and loving and you knew it, and then choose to act or speak. 
 
from that part of your personality while you are feeling the painful physical sensations and seeing the judgmental critical thoughts of the frightened part. That’s the moment of creating authentic power. That’s how you do it. That’s where the rubber meets the road. And as you do this again and again, you begin to move beyond the control of that frightened part of your personality. 
 
Creating authentic power requires challenging the frightened parts of your personality and cultivating the loving parts. First, you have to recognize them. Challenging a frightened part doesn’t mean conflict. You’re not going to war with it. And you’re not trying to embrace it, heal it, surrender to it. None of those things. You are intending to experience it intimately. 
 
emotional awareness. And while you are, put your attention into a loving part and then choose to speak and act from that part while you’re experiencing the frightened part. And as you do that again and again and again, love begins to enter into your awareness more and more. And this is how you create authentic power. You challenge fear. 
 
Gary Zukav (30:13.496) 
with your emotional awareness, intimately experiencing it so you know exactly what it is you’re challenging and deciding to move beyond its control. It’s as though you’re on a beach, sandy beach, and you draw a line in the sand with your big toe, and you say to a frightened part of your personality, this is as far as you go with me. Maybe it’s your anger, your j— 
 
jealousy, maybe it’s your need for sex or food or alcohol. And you say, this is it. This is as far as I go. And it may be that you do reach for those things again. Then you begin again. This is how you change your life. So when I say there’s a new human consciousness, this is the new human consciousness. And it contrasts 
 
The new human consciousness is multisensory perception and the creation of authentic power. The old consciousness is five-sensory perception and the pursuit of external power. The pursuit of external power is now more than obsolete. It’s toxic. It’s poison. It produces only violence and destruction. That’s where we are, Jim, right now as we begin to experience the new consciousness. 
 
And you say, well, what if I don’t want it? Don’t use any of the things that you’re saying. There’s no right or wrong in what I’m saying. You’re not being rewarded by choosing love and punished when you choose fear. If you choose fear, you just don’t change. If you like the experiences in your life, keep doing what you’re doing because you’re creating them. But most people want to change because they hurt. They hurt so much. 
 
And they reach a place in their lives when they say, I am tired of hurting. I’m tired of my anger. I’m tired of jealousy. I’m tired of resentment. I’m tired of needing to please. I’m tired of being superior and feeling as though I’m entitled. I hurt. I hurt. I’m tired of not having friends that talk about anything but shallowness with me. I’m tired of all these things and 
 
Gary Zukav (32:37.932) 
In the cases of many of them, I’ve tried alcohol. I’ve drunk myself into stupor. I’ve tried sex. I’ve tried gambling. I’ve tried eating. Usually one of them is enough to last for a lifetime for somebody to realize it’s not working. I still hurt. I can’t stop hurting. That is when most people open themselves to a spiritual alternative. But I say to everyone that’s listening to us, 
 
You don’t need to wait that long. You can start now. You have the new consciousness because you’re to this program, this program that has to do with the soul. And everything in the new consciousness has to do with the soul. A five-sensory personality identifies itself as a personality. A multi-sensory personality identifies itself as a soul. 
 
And that’s the great transformation that we are in now. Experiment with your life. Multisensory humans use the very experiences that five sensory humans do all they can to mask or block or prevent themselves from feeling. Multisensory humans go with awareness, with consciousness, exactly into those very experiences and use them as they were designed to be used. 
 
to show you aspects of yourself that you need to recognize, to become intimately aware of, and to move beyond the control of, so that you can give the gifts that you were born to give. That’s where your joy and your fulfillment and your creativity and your vitality enter the picture, enter your life, your life now with a new consciousness. 
 
is a heartfulness meditation, not a mindfulness meditation, a heartfulness meditation. It requires the heart. Authentic power is love. There is no greater power. Creating authentic power requires the heart. That’s why, that’s what I mean when I say emotions are central. Emotions are not central to five sensory humans. They’re hindrances. They get in the way of pursuing external power. 
 
Gary Zukav (35:06.713) 
The frightened parts of your personality are not your obstacles to spiritual growth. They’re your avenues to spiritual growth. All of this is part of the new consciousness, And that’s what we’re here to discuss. Now, what you do with the new consciousness is always for you to decide. You are, let me put it, I was going to say you are a chooser. You can’t stop choosing, but that really doesn’t. 
 
Express it accurately. You are choice. At each moment, your life brings you to a choice point. And in the earth school, that’s, let’s call this domain of time and space and matter and duality. The earth school, it’s a learning environment in which we learn love. How to transform our lives into the ongoing stabilized experience. 
 
Everybody has experienced it, at least glimpsed it. That’s grace. Grace is a moment in which you begin to experience your life as you would completely without fear. And then it’s gone. And it’s your responsibility now to bring that into your life, what you’ve just seen. That’s grace. 
 
When you talk about all this, Don Javier said the same thing to me that you did is that many times we think life, we use the letter A, life is a choice. And he said, life is not a choice. Life is choice. And the ultimate choice you made was to incarnate on this planet and then into this incarnation. 
 
Can I say something because you presented it and I’m not saying at all that that’s not correct. I’m saying that that’s not exactly what I wanted to say. From a five-sensory perspective, you could say a choice to incarnate is an ultimate choice. It’s not. It’s one that your soul has made and your soul has made countless choices, countless choices. And from my position in reality, my experience is that a soul has many 
 
Gary Zukav (37:23.158) 
many incarnations, and they’re all happening from the perspective of the soul at the same time. The soul is powerful, powerful enough to experience that. And you are an incarnation of a partial energy of your soul, and your incarnation is voluntary. Not every soul has the privilege of being in the earth school. The earth school 
 
is like everything in the universe, sacred and holy. It’s the densest form of energy, you might say, but it’s holy and we learn from it. The earth school was created in compassion. The universe is compassion and everything of the universe is compassion and you and the earth school. So then the question becomes, well, if it’s compassion, why do I hurt so much? 
 
Why is there addiction? Why do I suffer? You suffer because of frightened parts of your personality. Put it this way, in the Earth’s scope, you learn to distinguish the parts of yourself that are attached to the Earth, that are reaching for the Earth, and the parts of yourself that are reaching for your soul. Authentic power. 
 
is the ability to move through the Earth school with an empowered heart, without attachment to the outcome. That’s our potential. It’s not a must, it’s not a should, it’s not even a better or a worse. Our consciousness is now less limited than it once was. We see more potential than we once had. 
 
people listening to this through my experience and observation, many people will say, this is amazing. And I resonate with what Gary is saying. Now I had two parts, but you’ve already answered one question. Many people will say, but Gary, yeah, you don’t understand. I have my bills to pay and I have my rent and I have my food to pay. And I wanted to talk about the fear that people got into, but you answered that question already. But a question I have for you is are there 
 
Jim Fortin (39:43.554) 
because I want people to see themselves in you. Are there ever times that there are parts of your personality that experience fear? 
 
frequently. There’s an old saying that I’ve heard, be gentle with everyone you meet because everyone is fighting a great battle. This is the battle. 
 
In the Hindu mythology, there is a great battle. It’s all in an epic poem called the Mahabharata, of which the Bhagavad Gita, the most famous of all Indian poems, is a small part. And it’s about the greatest battle in the world. This is the battle in which Arjuna, the greatest warrior in the world, was given a choice for this coming battle. 
 
said, Arjuna, by Krishna, you can have command of all of the armies in the world, all of the elephants, all of the chariots, they’re at your command. Or you can have me as your chariot driver. And Arjuna said, I’ll take you. And his opponent, Karna, said, I’ve got him. I’ve got him. So now the great battle is about to begin. Two great families. 
 
on either side of the battlefield. And Krishna drives Arjuna in between them. And Arjuna says to Krishna, Krishna, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. My knees are shaking. I’m sweating. I can’t fight. These are my uncles. These are my brothers. I can’t do it. I don’t know what’s happening to me. And that’s when Krishna talks to Arjuna. And that’s the content of the Bhagavad Gita. 
 
Gary Zukav (41:33.672) 
And Krishna explains to Arjuna what he is. I use this analogy to show you because it’s such a huge thing in Hindu mythology. Jim, this huge thing in Hindu mythology is a graphic, literal description of what happens in you, in me, each moment. What are we going to do? Here is the great battle. Love on one side, fear on the other. 
 
And not only that, you’re not going to be killed in this battle. The Hindus say, we call it soul. They say Atman. They say, the sword cannot cut the soul. Fire cannot burn the soul. The soul will not. 
 
All of that is what happens in you moment by moment. This is the great battle. Temptation. We are talking now about temptation. May I talk about temptation for a moment? The choice between love and fear is called temptation. Here in the United States where I was born, it’s a Christian country and so I’m not Christian, but I know a little bit about 
 
this religion by osmosis, it’s all around me. And temptation from that perspective is something that originates outside of oneself in a malevolent entity that wishes me harm, that wishes me ill and tempts me. And that’s why the greatest prayer in the Christian realm is the large prayer. And it says specifically, 
 
Please deliver me from temptation. That’s the Christian view of temptation. It’s the five sensory perspective of temptation, not merely Christian. Every source of compassion and wisdom that is at the heart of each of our religions experience temptation, whether it was Christ or the Buddha, all of them were tempted. 
 
Gary Zukav (43:51.096) 
From the multisensory perspective, the origin of a temptation is not outside of us. It is created by a frightened part of our personality. It shows us exactly what that frightened part is planning to do. Unless we intervene, this is what it’s going to do. The temptation is a dress rehearsal for a negative karmic event. 
 
The dress rehearsal in a stage production, for example, is the final run through before the doors are open to the public. The actors know their lines. They know they’re blocking. They’re in costume. They’re in paint. They’re ready to go. This is it. This is the big show. That is what a temptation is. It’s the dress rehearsal. 
 
for a negative karmic event. Until then, the only people who have seen this production are the people who need to. And in this case, that’s you. If you decide to act on it, the doors to the theater are thrown open, the audience comes in, and you act that dress rehearsal. You bring it into your life. That’s the moment 
 
When this whole production moves beyond your sphere of energy and experience and into the energy and experience and experiential spheres of other people, that is the moment that karma is created. That’s temptation. So it’s a dramatically different way of looking at temptation and it requires a dramatically different approach to what you do. When you realize that a temptation 
 
is not simply something that a frightened part of your personality has produced. It’s a masterpiece. It’s exquisite. In every detail, the temptation shows you. Suppose the temptation is to have a sexual relationship with someone who’s in, say, a spiritual partnership or a relationship in which it’s agreed that that’s not part of the relationship. The temptation will show you what it will look like. 
 
Gary Zukav (46:19.726) 
And it’s not just visuals. It’ll show you what it feels like. It’ll show you what it tastes like. It’ll be so real, so inviting. That’s the temptation. Now, can you, in other words, temptation, put it this way, what is the nature of self-transformation, of spiritual growth? It is temptation, the universe’s gracious gift. 
 
of temptation. Since we’ve been talking about Christianity, Christ was tempted. Now that’s what we read, but suppose that really happened. Suppose the question is, was he really tempted? And I will tell you, yes, he was tempted. He had the world at his feet. Command of armies, command of financial institutions, women without number. 
 
Was this man tempted? This young man? Yes. There was a moment when the attraction toward that equaled the attraction opposite of that. And if he were not tempted, he would not have been able to draw from that choice the power that he did when he chose the path of glory. 
 
that he chose. This is the power that you experience moment by moment, and the new consciousness makes this evident to you. And it shows you how to approach it, how to use it, how to recognize the difference between love and fear. The Earth school is a domain of duality. For every this, there’s a that. Male, female, night, morning, good, bad. 
 
The opposite of love is not hatred, it’s fear. And you are brought to that choice point moment by moment, and you choose. If you’re not aware of the intention that you’re choosing when you speak or act, it comes from fear. Requires consciousness to make a choice of love. You can’t accidentally choose to love someone. You have to 
 
Gary Zukav (48:48.536) 
aware and choose that. This is real power. This is the power that now is required for our evolution, for human evolution. As you create authentic power, you become the authority in your life and you become more than that. You begin to see things that you could not have seen with the five senses. For example, 
 
I will share, I love sharing with all of the people who are listening. You are your perceptions. You’re not having them. They’re not happening to you. You’re not encountering your perceptions. You are your perception. 
 
You’ve gone way further than I thought we would go in this episode, which is beautiful. The question is, there are a lot of people that I’m sure that want to dig a lot deeper and learn from you and dive deeper into the evolution of their own person or to expand their personal power. So I know that you’re doing, what’s it called? An evening with Gary once per month. Is that what you’re calling it? 
 
Yes, it’s an experience once a month called An Evening with Gary Zukav. It’s a subscription. I’ll talk about an aspect of something that I’ve spoken about with you, and then I’ll answer questions. That’s the fun part for me and I think the fun part for the audience. 
 
Yeah, so people would find that by going to the seat of the soul dot com. Correct. And then get registered there. 
 
Gary Zukav (50:29.934) 
That’s right, they can get registered there. And we have courses in all of these things, emotional awareness, responsible choice, beyond the five senses, authentic power guidelines. And we have books that go with the courses. And you can read the books, you can listen to the books, or you can do the course and listen and read, or whatever combination you want. We do whatever we can to support you in creating authentic power, in experimenting with your life, in using the new consciousness. 
 
Gary, in this conversation back when my throat chakra, when I was a bit scruffy earlier, when we talk personally, that conversation just flows back and forth. But when we do these kinds of conversations, they’re harder for me to communicate because I’m just, I’m so following what you’re saying in these conversations. And I see so many nuggets that I’d love to pull out for people, but I definitely don’t want to interrupt you. 
 
But I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for your time, your energy, your love for being here, for sharing. And hopefully people listening will want to go and spend time with you as well to learn more about expanding our spiritual power, our personal power, authenticity, I believe as you call it. So thank you so much for sharing with me and being here with me today. 
 
Jim, it’s a pleasure. I’ve enjoyed using your gracious invitation to participate in this first podcast with a new focus and to give everything that I can to that focus. Not to say this is the way the world is, but this is a window through which I’ve come to see life. And I offer that window to you. Perhaps it will be helpful. 
 
to you too. I know that in my journey, especially recently, it’s brought me to things that I didn’t want to say to people out loud. I thought it would be embarrassing. I thought I would be ridiculed and instead, without exception so far, I’ve experienced receptivity rather than ridicule. 
 
Jim Fortin (52:42.752) 
Which is why I ask you in this conversation, are there parts of your personality to get in the fear? Because we talked about this on a personal call about 10 days ago or two weeks ago. And as I mentioned to you, look what’s happening. So thank you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I’m so grateful to have you in my life. And I love you so much, Gary. 
 
Thank you, Jim. It is returned. We are in new territory together, my dear friend. 
 
Thank you again for being with me, Gary, and I’ll chat with you soon.