Jim Fortin (00:01.73) 
Hi, I’m Jim Fortin and you’re about to start transforming your life from the inside out with this podcast. I’m widely considered the leader in subconscious transformation and I’ve coached super achievers all around the world for over 25 years. Here, you’re going to find no rah rah motivation and no hype because this podcast is a combination of brain science, transformational psychology and ancient wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you’ve never thought possible. 
 
If you’re wanting a lot more in life to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you because you’re going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you. I’m glad you’re here. Emma, good to work with you today. Good to see you again. And today we’re going to talk about human design. 
 
So thank you for being here and sharing your many years of experience and your expertise and the concept and discipline of human design. 
 
I’m so excited to be here and share human design with your audience. Thanks for having me. 
 
Absolutely. So there may be some people wondering what is human design? 
 
Emma Dunwoody (01:19.714) 
Yeah. Human design, the way I love to kind of introduce it to people because of my background being a behavioral coach is that I like to kind of compare it to things like eDisc or Myers-Briggs or Enneagram. So these are all behavioral and personality profiling tools, but human design is like the energetic version of that. When we get these other profiles, we fill out questions and we use our mind to decide who, like, this is who I think I am. 
 
Whereas human design actually goes deeper. So the cognitive dissonance isn’t there. You actually, it comes from your energetic blueprint from the time of birth where we are actually imprinted by these subatomic particles called neutrinos. And it leaves these energetic imprints on us. Now human design is this roadmap to our authenticity. So it’s going to help us find our purpose, who we are in relationships, you know, how energy works. talk a lot about business. So. 
 
It’s really the keys to unlock your authentic self. 
 
Okay, you said a whole lot there. So let’s break this down. And I, because I don’t know a lot about human design and I’m going to muddle through it. Just put me back on track. If I’m not asking you what you think are the most valuable, the right questions, but mainly I want people to get tangible takeaways today so that they will know how I can help them. And then of course they can reach out to you for more information consulting, whatever it is they may want from you. Where did human design come from? 
 
Human design came for, was actually channeled information. A lot of us know a thing called a course in miracles. So it’s exactly the same way as a course in miracles. The guy who actually channeled this information, Alan or Ra Uruhu as we know him, he actually channeled this information over eight days. And basically what he channeled was mathematically mapping together for ancient wisdoms. So this is the Hindu chakra system. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (03:20.748) 
the Kabbalah tree of life, the Chinese I Ching and Western astrology. So what happened is over those eight days, he was told how to put these four methodologies together, how to actually work with the result of that. And he literally just took all this information, wrote it all down, started teaching it and just seeing these results. like ultimately. 
 
It was this tool that was given to us, this experiment. were very explicit that it’s an experiment, not a dogma. And it was really here to effectively prevent children from ever being conditioned. So there’s a lot of us now like me who are in human design and we’re going through this deconditioning process. So we are finding out who we really are so we can let go of being the person we think we should be. 
 
Whereas the whole idea when it was first channeled was that this is for the kids. Like if we raise our kids in alignment to their design, and I’ve done a lot of this with my two boys, that they won’t have the conditioning that we’re carrying in the first place because they’ll be their most authentic self at the outset. 
 
What causes people to, other than just them hearing about it and then it just resonates with them in some way, for what reasons would somebody come to you for human design? 
 
I think often people come to human design when they’re frustrated with other modalities that haven’t worked. And that’s ultimately, and I talk a lot about this in my world and my community is that in so many spaces, we’re running other people’s strategies. So it could be, we’re trying to heal our trauma and all of our friends are like, well, this modality really works. And you go and you try the modality and it doesn’t, or you’re trying to build a business, something that we talk a lot about. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (05:13.802) 
And you’re running all the strategies and they’re just not working for you. When you come to human design. And I think a lot of people end up with human design because whether they like it or not, because I know my initial journey was like, much as I’m a very spiritual person, I’m keeping my spirituality in the closet. Like this isn’t something I really want to talk about out there. And ultimately I think one of the big pieces is that when you come to human design, whether you like it or you don’t like it, when you. 
 
put your information in and you get your chart and you start to read this blueprint of yours, it is deeply resonant. And I think after unpacking thousands of charts now, one of the things I always say to people is I never hear, that’s a surprise. What I hear all the time is, my God, thank you for giving me permission to be me. And in so many cases, and this was my experience, 
 
We’ve spent years in the personal development or spiritual development space, trying to fix something about ourselves. And often when we come to human design, we actually realize it’s our superpower, except whatever we were trying to fix, it’s our superpower. just expressing it from the shadow or from the fear. And instead we just need to flip it and find that like the potential in that. 
 
Yeah, you know, the thousands of people that have come to me, what I have found is that most people want to fix things. And when they enroll in TCP, they think they’re going to fix things. I’ve recognized over the years, it’s not about fixing anything. It’s about releasing and eliminating that which is not you, which is all the human identity and the ego. So we become all these things that are not us. They are not of the soul. 
 
Then we live this identity and then we feel like, we’re not good enough. We’re broken. I need this. I need that. And we’re trying to fix something, but it’s not us. We’re trying to fix. It’s an application that we are doing. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (07:16.682) 
Exactly. 
 
What would a process look like? I’m ignorant, even though I’ve worked with you. I’m in coaching with you. I mean, I coached you. But what does the process look like? Walk me through the process, please. 
 
One of the primary places is that when we first come to human design, we want to actually start to understand how our energy works. So not just our mind, like this bubble, this aura, this, this thing that we’re, we’re walking around in. So the, we start to do is we just understand like, okay, well, how does my energy actually work? And we fall into these first and foremost, these five types, which is a manifesto, a generator, a manifesting generator, a projector, and a reflector. 
 
Okay, hang on. Before you go there, so there’s five types. How were those five? Now you’d mentioned the Kabbalah and ancient wisdom earlier. How were these five types established? 
 
This is such a good question because human design is huge right now. It’s just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And there’s a lot of talk about type, for example, and type specifically was something that Ra the creator created after the download. He actually created it after to help teach people because human design itself is complicated. You know, it’s why I wrote a book called human design made simple because it’s super complicated. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (08:41.122) 
So type is like a jumping off point and it really gives us this overview of, okay, what is our ground zero? So for example, you’re a manifesting generator. I’m actually a manifesting generator as well. So what does that mean? That means that in a lot of cases, we’re not going to fit into this linear path that we’re taught to fit into. IE you go to school, you learn something, you decide to focus on one thing, then you go to university, then you do that one thing for the rest of your life. 
 
A manifesting generator is a nonlinear energy. So it means like, I couldn’t think of anything worse than doing one thing my entire life. mean, I’ve been a chef, I’ve been a professional sports person. I’ve had a very successful advertising career, you know, like I’m an entrepreneur. So this is this energy that’s straight off the bat. I’m like, okay, as a manifesting generator, I’m here to demonstrate human potential. I’m a nonlinear being. 
 
I’m going to skip a lot of steps. I’m going to move really fast and be too much for some people. So all of a sudden we can start to identify, wow, these are all the things for me personally, I tried to keep myself really small for a lot of my life, but it’s just not the way I’m designed. So as we sort of start with type, then we move into things like what we call strategy and authority. And this is where we start to identify one of the really important parts of human design. And that is, 
 
that we’ve to move from the head and into the body to make decisions and to be guided. So each one of us has our own unique strategy and authority. And this is how we actually communicate both intrinsically with our higher self and how the universe, God, source, whatever you call it, also communicates with us. So all of a sudden we’re really changing this dynamic of, well, if I need to make a decision, I need to analyze it. need to have, you know, pros and cons. 
 
We’ve got to throw all of that out and we start to make our decisions from a felt biofeedback position as opposed to mentally. And I know this is kind of very in alignment with a lot of the work that you do as well. 
 
Jim Fortin (10:48.61) 
Yeah, so of these five categories that we are, I would assume I’m only assuming that this is all written in the stars. We incarnate and we automatically fall into one of these five categories. Is that accurate? 
 
Yes. So from our birth time, from our place of birth, all of these coordinates, yes, the moment we’re born, we fall into a type, we get our strategy, we get out all of it is that’s our, we call our natal design. 
 
Okay. Do our strategies ever change? 
 
Good question. And this is one of the things that really bothered me with a lot of the personality and behavioral profiling. For example, me personally with Myers-Briggs, every time I did a Myers-Briggs test, I would flip from introvert to extrovert. Whereas with human design, no, you’re born with your chart and what is really beautiful about it. And again, I don’t want to overcomplicate, but I work with the gene keys as well. And the gene keys are 
 
are mapped into to human design and they give us this journey. So yes, we’ve got the same design, except we can look at it from the shadow, the gift and the enlightened or city state. So it gives us this journey of potential that actually lives within us. And I think that’s one of the things that kind of bugs me about other modalities is it’s like, this is who you are. Whereas with human design and the gene keys together, it’s like, this is your roadmap. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (12:17.442) 
This is your potential and here’s all your shadow as well. So you get the whole journey. 
 
Do we ever crisscross meaning, okay, well, this is what I know. I don’t know anything, but this is kind of what I know is whatever your predominant traits are, are your predominant traits and they stay your predominant traits. But do we ever like maybe be one strategy, but we bring on a little bit of some other kind of strategy, like 80 % manifesting generator and then 20 % of something else rolled into that manifesting generator. 
 
Yes, kind of. What I mean by that is that what it shows us in our human design blueprint, it shows us not only what our consistent, reliable themes, energies, challenges, superpowers are, it also shows us where we are influenced by others and where we are more susceptible to conditioning. one of the things that’s super like what you’re talking about is it then becomes very 
 
important who we spend time with because we are literally taking on their energy. We’re taking on their traits, their superpowers, their shadows. And for me personally, I’ve got what’s called an undefined head and Ashena, meaning that all of my mental energy, I’ve got a wide open mental space, meaning I’m taking it everybody else’s belief systems, their thinking, their anxieties. Like I can actually feel all of that. And I remember when I first started coaching people like 
 
Wow. You are reading my mind. And I was like, no, no, no, I’m just really good at running the models. I’m just really good at running the models. And then as I got into human design, was like, like I really am reading your mind because I take on other people’s mental energy. So yes, we can absolutely take on other people’s energy. And in my work where we see this so much is how our parents have conditioned us. So their energy imprinting on us thinking that 
 
Emma Dunwoody (14:16.876) 
What we’re feeling is us, but it’s actually not, it’s them. But then we create an identity, a belief system, a story, and then we grow up and we’re like, I need to fix this or heal this. But it wasn’t even them in the first place. So what human design really helps us do is to identify, okay, this is me and this is not me. So how is that helpful? Let’s say you work in an environment where you go to work and you just feel really wiped out and emotional and all of these things. 
 
But when you start to understand your own design, you move into this place where you can start to let go of energy that you know is not yours. And I’ll give you a simple example of that. So for me in my design, I have a thing called an undefined spleen, which means I actually take in and amplify the fear of others. One of the things that I noticed once I started to experiment with my design many years ago is that when I get onto a, like, I’m not afraid of flying. I’m not afraid of flying at all, but when I get onto a plane, 
 
All of a sudden I might have thoughts or visions of like the plane blowing up on the track on the runway, or I’m feeling all of this fear. I was always like, this is so weird because I’m not afraid, but it’s because I’m feeling everybody else’s energy. So these days, whenever I feel or, you know, see these images, I can actually just relax and be like, you know, I’m sending love to all of you. We’re all going to be okay. It’s all like, no, it’s not my energy to hold onto or do anything with. 
 
Thank you for that answer. I know that you’re an expert at this and I know you’re very good and you’ve read the book about all this and you’re recognized by a lot of people for doing this. But another question here and feel free. Don’t feel obligated about anything. Share what you want to share as little or as much here in the U S we have a divorce rate of about 53 % and that’s probably pretty much holds true for a lot of the world. Let’s go here first. Two step question, two part. 
 
Number one is before you knew all of this about human design, how would that contribute to you? You didn’t know it yet. How could of knowing it prevented you from getting into the marriage that you were in? 
 
Emma Dunwoody (16:27.136) 
It goes back to this piece that I just spoke about is that one of the things that I’ve really identified with human design and with my journey, whether it’s my ex relationship or whether it’s even with my mother, especially, I realized for so many years, I experienced so much pain and it wasn’t actually mine. And I spent years trying to fix it and solve it and felt like I was a failure, but 
 
I wasn’t a failure. was because it wasn’t actually mine. I was feeling someone else’s energy. I know that, you know, knowing what I know now about human design, think, especially when we talk about relationships, the big shift knowing human design is that you know, this other person, you know, you know, the way they want to be treated, you know, the way they’re designed to be, and you know who you truly are. And I think that a lot of 
 
The world that we’re living in right now is we’re so, unfortunately, we’re so busy trying to people please and be the person that our other partner needs. But the honest truth I know for me right here, right now is that I was way too much for my ex, like way too much, too ambitious, too positive, too like, yeah, it’ll all be okay. I took way too much attention. I know so much about myself. Like even there’s a specific part in your chart called your attraction sphere. 
 
And sitting in that part of my chart, the predominant theme is expansion. You know, so people are attracted to the fact that I feel like someone who’s expanding. And then at the same time, I also like people get on the train and go, wow, I can’t come with you. That feels too much. So when we start to really understand our design and other people’s design, I mean, I’ve used this to raise my kids and let my kids be their most authentic self. 
 
through education systems that don’t serve them or support them. So it’s actually a really beautiful way to know yourself and the other. And I’ve got to be honest, sitting at this place, knowing my design, knowing myself as well as I know myself now, know, sitting in this place where I’ve done a lot of healing for the last couple of years after divorcing my ex, one of the things I know for sure is that I feel so confident in who I am. I don’t need another person. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (18:51.018) 
If I am in a relationship with another person, I know really authentically who I am going to show up as. And if that’s not okay with this person, then I can step away from it. So I really feel like in relationships, human design is going to tell you so much about yourself. And then if you have the courage to fully step into that, then you’re only going to call in great relationships. And I want to give you an example, especially because we work, this is one of the primary things we worked on in our coaching was in human design. I’m an emotional authority. 
 
So my emotions play a really big role in the way I make decisions. And one of the biggest challenges with our work was that I was stuck in the shadow of all of my emotions, meaning that every single decision that I made had this veil over it. Like I couldn’t get clarity. What was so beautiful about my design is if I didn’t know my human design, I could have potentially fallen into one of my old bad habits and just 
 
shut them off altogether because I’m like, yeah, I’ve just got to shut those things down. But knowing that I’m an emotional authority and knowing that they were like way, like wild horses out of control, I was like, right, I need to bring this super power back into me and into authenticity. So what that’s what I love about human design is that it really helped me go, okay, it’s not about changing my emotions. It’s about bringing them back into resourcefulness, into alignment. 
 
so that I can receive clarity instead of just living in the trauma response or whatever it is. And I feel like that’s what’s so powerful about human design is it gives us sovereignty in every situation because we really do know ourselves very well, even if we’re not driving the bus the best we can, if you know what 
 
So question here, because I’m really curious and my own interpretation is that people don’t know themselves. They know themselves at an ego level, but not a soulful level, not at an identity level. What people get into, which I knew a coach, but I’ve never been to what’s called Landmark Forum. And they call it a racket. And a racket is we see each other, we find each other physically attractive. So then I struck up a conversation and then I… 
 
Jim Fortin (21:04.204) 
I telegraph to you that I like you. And then because I like you, you telegraph to me that you like me. So we’re attracted to each other. I like you. I like me. Let’s date. And it’s more of I like you, you like me. And it’s a big racket and that we’re caught in the racket. Now I look at this and I’m fascinated with the divorce rate in the United States and what’s causing it. And there are many different things causing it. Do we find with human design that two people 
 
might at an ego level, meaning, you went to the University of Texas, I did too. You love jet skiing, I do too. You love outdoor living, I do too. we find each other attractive, let’s date. Then we find there are energetic things, we’re not calling it that. We’re finding energetic things that are missing in their relationship. We have a lot of commonality, but we’re not connecting emotionally at a deeper soulful level. 
 
Would you say that’s because we have, we’re working from different strategies and the human design, you know, the five strategies, but we don’t know it. 
 
Okay. This is a great question. And there’s a couple of ways that we’re to look at it from human design. So number one is in our design specifically, we, as I said earlier, we’re going to be imprinted conditioned by our parents where we have what we call open centers, whatever that conditioning is. It’s something it’s an energy that you live your childhood in. So you feel like that’s you now in, in the trauma world, we’re going to call it trauma bonding. 
 
This is actually a deep conditioning that’s going on. So the first thing that’s happening when we meet someone is, and this is definitely what happened to me. And I said for years, I’m like, God, I married my mother. married my mother. I married. I really did. Like. 
 
Jim Fortin (22:53.07) 
A lot of people say that, by the way, they married, I married my father. married my mother. 
 
Exactly. And that from a human design perspective, it’s deeper than just the mindset. It’s because it’s the frequency that that person felt like in your body and your, your open spaces because your undefined centers are carrying the most conditioning and we decondition our undefined centers because they’re actually very powerful when we work with them. However, if they’re still in a conditioning, it’s almost like they’re scrambling, they’re scrambling for that frequency. 
 
So you will call in a person that feels the same as the parent because that frequency matches. Now we go even deeper with human design where we have, because we have channels and this is how the energy moves from each center. And again, don’t worry if it doesn’t make sense, but sometimes we have just a gate and when two gates come together, we call those electromagnetics. If you, let’s say you meet someone and it’s like all fireworks and you’re like, 
 
Whoa, this person’s amazing. In human design, we’re like, watch out because they’re electromagnetics. Now, some electromagnetics in relationships, they’re beautiful. There’s one that’s like, they’re like joined at the hip. So if one has the 19 and the other has the 49, it’s this beautiful relationship. Yet there’s others, which is like the 38 and the 28, which is the gate of struggle and the gate of the fighter. If those two come together and I had this in my ex relationship, that’s going to be a challenge. 
 
In human design, we can really see where the challenges are going to lie when the two come together. And it is very much about this frequency pace and looking at your chart, just really quickly. You’ve got an undefined, what we call G center. Okay. So the G center is part of the heart chakra, and this is our higher self, our higher identity. This is where unconditional love lives. It’s also where direction lives. Now I also have a wide open G center. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (24:53.292) 
And those of us that have that, we can often wrestle with lovability because we don’t have this consistent like flag in the sand, energy in us all the time, time, just feeling like we’re lovable. You know, we feel like we’re worthy because we’ve both got what’s called a defined will center. actually have quite similar charts. we both have a defined will center. So we feel worthy. And even when we’re not feeling worthy, we just have to scratch the surface and go, actually, yep, I’ve got good worth, you know, but with our lovability. 
 
I love ability. We’re just like, and the way that this played out for me is that I would even question my connection to source. Like, God, am I even lovable enough for source? And that was a big journey for me. And that was a really good journey in my ex relationship because I never felt lovable. So there are also these places in our chart that are really going to help show us like, is why you feel the way you feel. And this is why this relationship perhaps does work. And. 
 
This is why the relationship perhaps doesn’t work. So in a perfect world, we decondition our stuff. So I’ve done a lot of deconditioning on my design. When I meet someone else, my undefined centers, my openness isn’t scrambling for something it’s missing. It’s just waiting to feel the frequency of other people. And then I’m going to feel that I’m going to amplify it. I’m going to reflect it back. I think the divorce rate is because there is just so much scrambling for like, need that frequency. 
 
on a really energetic level that people are so subconscious to. And that’s why they get into these relationships that don’t work because they feel comfortable. They’re not serving them. 
 
So, the guy who, was it a guy, a gentleman that channeled? What was his background? 
 
Emma Dunwoody (26:39.052) 
Yes, yes, rah, rah, ur, hur. 
 
His background, he actually was an advertising, a burnt out advertising executive. He was the most reluctant spiritual leader you could ever imagine. He was in Ibiza. I think he was having like a, not a nervous breakdown, exhaustion. He’d been working really hard. His marriage was over. There was all this turmoil in his life. And he literally just one night, this voice started talking to him and it was like, pick up a piece of paper and a pen and start writing. 
 
And like, as I said, he’s a very reluctant person, but he did it. He just did what he was told and even his energy. So from a human design perspective, you know, he’s a manifesto. So a manifesto is a here to initiate. So he also had his primary, like his top top energy was this gate. It’s called the gate of shock. And literally his whole energy is shocking. It’s like the words he says, how he says it, whatever it might be. 
 
And it’s really, I think it’s been why human design has really taken off because he’s been a person that’s very polarizing. Like I don’t love him to be honest. I don’t love the human that he is, but I love the work that he’s brought in. yeah, he’s a very controversial figure. 
 
It’s interesting that you bring that point up in that way because actually I like that approach and the reason why I go back to my friend Gary Zukov. He was telling me that back in 1979, 78, he was told to pick up a notepad and all this work started coming through him. And it was his first book called The Dancing Wooly Masters, meaning the Dancing Energy Masters. And Gary said he wrote the whole thing out of the frame. 
 
Jim Fortin (28:27.458) 
And it wasn’t even organized, but it was just all coming. And then he took everything he wrote out and threw it in the trash because he’s in his analytical mind, like your guy that was a skeptic. And he’s like, no, no, no. And the beings that were guiding him pull it out of the trash. We’re going to put it together now. And so then he wrote the Dancing Moodly Masters and it became a New York Times number one bestselling book. And that’s kind of the foundation of 
 
who Gary Zukof has become and went on for Oprah. you know, Oprah said he literally helped her, all these kinds of things. But he didn’t say, rah, rah, look at me, I’m a genius, I have it. He said, I didn’t even want this. And look what came to me. And then I put it together as best I could once it came to me. Something he brought up here is I kind of chuckle a little bit. In a large part of the world, when two people are gonna get married, many people will say, well, if you’re Catholic, 
 
you need to go to pre-marital counseling. And I’m thinking, wouldn’t this be effectively good pre-marital counseling to run your charts prior to getting married and seeing where you might have potential soulful energetic problems? Because we don’t know any of this prior to getting married. But what if I knew that, okay, these areas in my life could be a struggle based upon my partner’s chart? 
 
Now I know, okay, let’s not focus on this. Let’s work on this together from the chart. What’s your thought on that? 
 
So I love these and I can give you the exact example in my ex relationship. So when two charts come together, we call it a connection chart. When they come together and you look at them, what you’re looking for is how the centers that are what we call centers, the chakras, how they come together. Now they’re going to come together and there’s going to be some that are what we call defined. They look colored in and there’s going to be some that are undefined. They look white. Now. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (30:28.378) 
What human design tells us is whatever centers are white are our growth space. Okay. Some of us might have all of them defined and I’ll give you an example. My eldest son and I, our two charts together. They all defined like this kid and I, are two peas in a pod. Yeah. Easy. It just, it all just flows because we don’t have a very specific growth area. Okay. Now myself and my ex husband, we had. 
 
the G-Center, so this heart, this lovability. So that was wide open. And we also had an undefined head, so crown chakra. So all about inspiration and, you know, like channeling in information. What’s going to happen in a relationship like that is that unless you clear up your own individual, let’s use the lovability stuff. 
 
If we don’t clean up our own individual stuff, then that’s going to be a massive area of contention in a relationship because what we think we’re seeing in the other isn’t in the other, it’s in us, but we’re actually taking in their energy and amplifying that. So it becomes really messy and muddy and uncomfortable. And it’s like, you know, I always say like it’s grasping at smoke. It doesn’t make sense. That’s one of the beautiful things that when we can see where our growth areas are in relationships. So for example, both you and I, when we go into a relationship, 
 
We want to know like, do we have an open G center in the entire relationship? Because that means that we have to be like double responsible for our own lovability because what we will tend to do is we will let the other person’s level of lovability be our level of lovability. And of course we don’t want that because that’s going to be conditioning. 
 
So they’ve got a lower level of lovability. Many of us take that on is what you’re saying. And then it’s a sentence. I’m not going to be able to articulate it, they’ve got a lower level of lovability in that g-center. And so we might have a higher, but if we don’t recognize, please help me with my words. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (32:31.63) 
So what happens like this is a great point. So let’s say a person like you, you’re to work on your lovability. And I always say like wherever you have an undefined center, we want to have a ritual. There’s going to be a ritual around lovability. So you know what your level of lovability is. However, let’s say you’re with someone who has a low level of lovability. They have 
 
a colored in like a defined G center. When you’re in their space, you are literally going to feel their level of lovability because that you’re literally taking in amplifying and reflecting back their energy. So one of the things you’re going to be really good at, cause I know I’m really good at is that when you’re with people, it’s like, it’s really easy for you to see their higher self. Like I can see you uncomplicated. That’s the G center. But what you’re doing is you’re taking in their energy, their higher self energy. 
 
And you’re reflecting it back. It’s like, I can really see that. So in a relationship, this can also look like, well, I can see all this potential in you and you chase potential. Again, that was one of the big mistakes that I made in my ex relationship is following potential instead of reality. whatever the under, and it could be, let’s say an emotional solar plexus. So if you have an undefined solar plexus, which is the house of emotion and your partner has a defined. 
 
emotional solar plexus, like that can be really challenging because you are just writing, you know, one of you is writing the other one’s emotions all the time. And if you’re in an emotional relationship, one of the first rules is, and both you and I are always going to be in an emotional relationship because we have an emotional solar plexus defined, is that we have to have permission to sleep on it. You know, you know how often in relational conversations, like you want to get to the end of it. You want to get to the resolution. You want to sort it out. 
 
an emotional being in an emotional, in a relationship, you must have permission to go, okay, I’m going to call my safe word, whatever that is. And we can, continue this tomorrow because an emotional being will just, just doesn’t have clarity in the now we just don’t just doesn’t happen that way. But if we sleep on it and then continue the conversation, we’re going to come from a place of clarity and balance and in a very different place than if we’re trying to push to a resolution. it’s exactly how. 
 
Jim Fortin (34:50.324) 
rate is I have to give myself time because let me let me sit because if I’m in my emotions now it’s clouding my judgment and my discernment and my critical thinking. But if I just take the emotions out, leave it alone and look at it tomorrow, I’m going to see it more objectively. So let me just have a little time to look at it from a different perspective. That nailed it completely. Is the chart based upon the birth date? 
 
It’s the exact birth time, the birth date and the location. So the city or town that you were born in. 
 
Okay, I’d set follow up to that. How was this different than astrology? 
 
Well, and the great question, because it’s not very different to astrology because astrology is part of the whole equation, but how it’s specifically different is, and this is the other thing that I love about human design, because when I clocked this, I was like, well, that makes sense that over those eight days that Ra channeled all the information of the four ancient wisdoms, they mathematically mapped all four of them together. I mean, there’s no human brain that’s going to work that out in eight days. That’s just not a thing. That is a higher power thing. Right. 
 
The way that it differs is that astrology is only a portion of human design. It’s as well as the I Ching and like the I Ching, for example, that is the Chinese book of changes, the 64 ways a human can change. And so these are in human design. We call them the gates in the gene keys. call them the gene keys. These also represent represent this thing that we call a line number. So our profiles, you’re a five one profile. I’m a three five profile. What that says is 
 
Emma Dunwoody (36:30.038) 
Honestly, on my podcast, the profile I interview, the profile line I interview the most is a line five, because these are the people who they are the healers. They’re the problem solvers, but they’re also the leaders. They’re also the people that want to be out the front. They’re the ones that have to globalize and universalize all of their information and all of their learning. 
 
Astrology is part and then there’s just all of the others and then the centers of what we call the chakra systems and then the Kabbalah tree of life is what we call the channels. It’s how the energy moves around the design. 
 
Okay, I’ve got the big question for you to wrap up before we tell people where to find you. And so I have lot of 10 minutes for this answer, but we’ll see where it goes. Are you familiar with the concept of twin flame? 
 
I I’m not an expert, but I’m familiar. 
 
The way Don Hovier explained it to me is that a twin plane, two people were created from the same spark at the Big Bang in that particular universe. So basically it’s like a soul that split in half and became two. And then they travel and they intersect and come back together and go different directions to come back and intersect. Maybe we could say a more common word is we have so many different definitions. Gary has a different definition. I do. 
 
Jim Fortin (37:47.182) 
Neil Donald Walsh, etc. You know, for example, Neil and I’ve talked about it and Neil definitely believes in twin flames. Gary does not subscribe to twin flames, but I’ve learned from Donna of the air and he’s like, absolutely. We’re twin flames are one soul that split. So that being postulated. Okay. So when we actually incarnate, wouldn’t a twin flame have these same kind of strategies or whoa. 
 
good question. See, I’ve got a bit of a yes and a no going on because part of me is yes. Like if I think about, and do we feel that twin flames are the people that honestly create the most growth in our life? So there might be a lot of passion, but there’s also a lot of challenge. this what we’re, is this kind of the theme? 
 
So let me ask you this before we keep going. Your former husband, was he your twin flame because he created the most amount of conflict in your life? 
 
Hmm. I don’t know. Cause this is the thing and I’ve considered this through the kind of soulmate type thing. So from a human design perspective, we have very different charts yet we have very similar charts. So I remember the first time someone looked at both of our charts, like an expert looked at both of our charts and she’s like, that’s so weird. It’s so similar, but our charts never really worked well together yet. 
 
Was that ego or charts? 
 
Emma Dunwoody (39:11.576) 
charts, not ego. Meaning that in relationships, you’re to be looking for things like electromagnetics, or you’re going to be looking for similar themes. So my team, I can look at my chart and their chart, and there’s all these themes. There’s everything like my kids, there’s a thing in human design called a bridge gate. So you will often have the predominant people in your life will have your bridge gates. My parents had one of them. My kids have the other one. 
 
Okay. 
 
Emma Dunwoody (39:36.984) 
But none of that, we didn’t have anything that came to like nothing kind of looked like, yeah, that would be why you two are together. But from a twin flame perspective, I mean, our charts had these kind of, it didn’t fit. Like the two didn’t, like if we really looked at it, it didn’t fit. However, I was. 
 
Do you think you would have gotten married if you had seen all this before you said I do? 
 
If I knew what I knew about the design today and had had enough experience to know how bang on it is, then potentially not. 
 
Okay. And that’s a good, potentially not because analytically we’re saying, no, no, yes, I want, I want to get married yet. But if there’s a universal mathematical wisdom saying, you don’t add up together, it doesn’t work. I had a friend of mine that he, and I don’t put a lot of stock in psychics, but this friend of mine saw somebody that he deemed to be a reliable psychic. And she said to him, 
 
If you marry this now, his girlfriend was like, his fiance was like an amazing woman in his mind. Amazing, amazing, amazing. He was head over heels and the psyche said, if you marry her, it’s going to be a life of hell. And he’s like, what are you talking about? We get along perfectly. The next day after we got, they got married, she changed dramatically and she literally told him verbatim as he is explained to me. She said, when we were dating, 
 
Jim Fortin (41:15.37) 
I was being who I thought you wanted me to be because I wanted you. But now that we’re married, I’m going to be my real me.” And he’s like, but I married the person that you were portraying yourself as. The real you, you didn’t say this back then, I don’t like the real you. And they ended up getting divorced four years later. It cost him like $4 million. And she was a miserable person. So I look at this and I’m like, we tend to negate 
 
when external sources tell us because in our own mind, no, I’m in love. So that’s why I was asking you, if you had seen these charts prior to saying, yes, I do, would you have still said, I do? 
 
I love what you just said. Like, no, I’m love. That was actually my greatest challenge because this whole time I’m like, I can rise above this. I can be bigger than this. I can learn from this. I can grow from this. I can be better from this. And that was my own, especially from a human design perspective as a line five, you’re a line five as well. I’m a freaking superhero. There’s an energy in us that we can either be the superhero or the freaking savior. And I was just sitting in the shadow of my energy. 
 
And knowing what I know now is I look at all the people around me and the people that I magnetize to me are most often manifesting generators. And the projectors I have in my life, they are very different to my mother, because this is where I learned the projector energy. And I actually had a moment in time where I met a particular projector who’s now one of my dearest friends. And I remember having a very visceral experience of like, 
 
my God, this is what you guys feel like. This is what you feel like when you’re in alignment. Like this is not what I’m used to. So yeah, I dunno. think especially sitting on the precipice of, you know, calling in a relationship at some point in the future. Like, I dunno, I will definitely be checking his design before I go anywhere. 
 
Jim Fortin (43:15.414) 
Speaking of checking design, where can people find, thank you, thank you, thank you. Where can people find more about you? 
 
Yes, you can get the book, Human Design Made Simple, because ultimately human design is super complicated. And our mission is to take human design mainstream. We want people to find it really easy to integrate into their life, to raise their kids, to whatever. So wrote the book, Human Design Made Simple, to help people do that. You can find me at emma dunwoody.com. I’m a manifesting generator. So there’s like a seven different ways that you can work with me. You can check out the podcast, which is the Human Design Podcast. 
 
And I’m the human design coach over on Instagram. Yeah. And we have actually just released something that Maggie, who is our magnetic by design chat bot, who’s going to help you with all your human design needs. So she’s super exciting and find her on the website. 

So would people come to you because they want to learn also how to read the charts and be a human design consultant? Is that why they would come? 
 
Yeah, so good question. Twofold, yes. We have an amazing collective community called HDX where you can learn everything human design. You know, I run masterminds as well. And we help a lot of people with business. So actually building a business that’s aligned to your design as opposed to running other people’s strategies that just exhaust you and burn you out. It’s all about working less, living more and actually, you know, having an impact. 
 
Jim Fortin (44:40.832) 
Love it. Emma, I wish we had more time today, but this has been fascinating. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I know we moved really fast, but thank you for sharing everything. And I will actually drop all of your information in the show notes as well. But thank you for educating us on the concept of human design. I appreciate you. 
 
You’re so welcome. Thanks so much for having me. 
 
Thank you.