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You're listening to the Transform your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This is an interview episode and I'm interviewing a student of mine, Dr. Alex, an MD. The title of this episode is Going from a Fragmented and Wounded Self to being Whole and Happy. Holy Mackerel, there is a lot in this episode. Alex holds nothing back thankfully, and she shares a great deal. And no matter where you are in your own journey, I think you're going to get a lot out of this episode. We talked about her childhood conditioning. We talk about her and step into our authentic self. We talked about. Basically, looking at the dark and light within you. And then we talk also about living with purpose and meaning. Alex is very transparent, and she talks about her childhood influences. And living her life so pervasively as a kid. Wanting to please your parents and to meet their expectations. And she talks about how this affected her throughout her life. We also talk about, as I'd mentioned, just to, you know, a minute ago, about being what she called a fragmented and reintegration. And we talked about being self-authentic. And we also talk about the facades that people live in. We talked about so much in this episode. We also talk about the mask that, you know, people wear different masks you know, with different people. And we talk about the suffering that a lot of people are in. We also talk about a theme that I’ve; I talk about whether I have a guest or not I talk about a lot. And that's because I've, you know, I've lived that journey of self-acceptance. So, if you're looking for a really thought provoking, Inspiring amazing episode You're going to love this episode. Enjoy.

Hi, I am Jim Fortin, and you're about to start Transforming your Life from the Inside Out with this podcast, I'm widely considered the leader in Subconscious Transformation, and I've coached super achievers all around the world for over 25 years. Here you're going to find no rah motivation and no hype, because this podcast is a combination of Brain Science, Transformational Psychology and Ancient Wisdom all rolled into one, to take your life to levels you've never thought possible. If you're wanting a lot more in life to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive, and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you because you're going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you. I'm glad you're here.

Jim Fortin: So, we're visiting with Dr. Alex, former student, and she wants to talk to you guys about transformation and a little bit about what she does, which Dr. Alex is an MD. We'll talk about what you do and how people listening can literally benefit from just what you're sharing with them. So, let's just go through some basic questions first, when did we meet you and me?

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Let's see. We met March 2019, I believe was the, I think it was your third or fourth round of running T C P total.

Jim Fortin: And we're on around 16 now,

Dr. Alex: Yeah, we were around for a bit.

Jim Fortin: Yeah. So you were around the third or 4rth round in 2019. You're correct. I was looking at some numbers last night about how much we've run over the years.

Dr. Alex: Right.

Jim Fortin: And I was looking at the people in there and the metrics and all that, but Wow. Okay.

Dr. Alex: I know.

Jim Fortin: So, I want to, I wanna talk about some things. And by the way, I didn't like, say, like traditionally walk on way up, Dr. Alex, blah, blah, blah. It's just I know you and I'm sorry to the people listening, it's just I know you.

Dr. Alex: We're cool. We're just kicking off and you're hearing in the middle of our conversation, so well,

Jim Fortin: We're talking about things earlier.

Dr. Alex: Exactly.

Jim Fortin: What's your background? Professional.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Yep. So, let's see. I am a, an Anesthesiologist by training. I was trained at the University of Chicago, and then further sub-specialized in Interventional Pain. And that is to say that I do a combination of interventions and most of them are geared towards procedures. So, numbing things is kind of taking care of different nerves in the body, muscles, joints, things like that. And then I have a strong focus as part of that in the role of the brain, the central nervous system and its creation, management, and, you know, continuation of pain or the resolution of it. And so, from widespread pain to cancer pain to all sorts of stuff, that is what I do for quote my side job,

Jim Fortin: But we're doing other things, which we get in a minute. You're gonna share?

Dr. Alex: Yeah, exactly.

Jim Fortin: A cursory question. Have I promised you or paid you anything or coach you what to say to be here?

Dr. Alex: Nope. Not at all. I'm unpaid unplanted in the audience. I'm, yeah, no, I'm, I know. Agree.

Jim Fortin: You're laughing, and I say that because you've been in TCP and you know, the amount of positivity and the retention rate and what people say. And people accuse me of planting all of that is being fake and fake.

Dr. Alex: Right.

Jim Fortin: It's not fake. So, I didn't promise you, I didn't ask you to say a thing. You don't even know where we're gonna go yet. Right.

Dr. Alex: So, no, I have no idea what we're gonna talk about, which I personally love, but actually I'm a huge fan of this because I think there's. When you're an energy person, it brings out energy things in people, right? And so, I always love whenever I'm speaking, whatever, someone in the room's gonna go, oh, I was just thinking about that. Or, oh, this is just so great. Like, this is so awesome. Right? And I always may tend to make a joke of, oh, there's my audience plant, and everybody kind of giggles. But at the same time, it's so fun to see like when you have something this good that people feel like they don't have any other argument against you than to poke holes at something like beautiful unfolding in the world that you can't deny to me that's fun. Like sure, the comments may be annoying, but if you really think about what that is. Heck, that makes me smile right now.

Jim Fortin: Yeah, no I'm same point of view, and that's why I like to do it this way because I just want you to be you. And I want people listening to get to know some things about you. But, you know, we say in T C P, and I just talk to Amy, who was in T C P, and she said something that I, it's, I live my life by it. But you've heard me say it a bazillion times. What's most personal is most general, what you're dealing with, no matter how messy you think it is, you ain't the only one in the world, right?

Dr. Alex: Yes.

Jim Fortin: So, when people listening,

Dr. Alex: That is so true. Yeah.

Jim Fortin: When people listen and you share, you, they're like, they almost break down because they're like, somebody gets what I'm going through. So, let's go here. Let's start. You were looking for something when you found me. What were you looking for or to solve or resolve in your life?

Dr. Alex: Well, as is I noticed round after round that this was fairly common, but like many people, I came in with the goal to make more money and grow my business.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And I had, from what I'm gonna go ahead and skip to the end of that story of hugely problematic big picture, life altering issues and hangups and stories and viewpoints and beliefs that were incredibly problematic. And yet my focus was like, well, if I can just build, you know, make enough money, and have a nice enough life on the outside, then I'll be happy. Right. So, no, I didn't know. I didn't, that's not what I was telling myself. But basically, yes, I went and being like, I'm gonna, you know, make more money. And low and behold what I discovered was that's not what I was actually there to work through. Definitely.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: But on the surface it definitely came from that very basic place.

Jim Fortin: Understood. And, you know, let's go back here. You, that's why I like this to be organic, is you went to one of the best schools in the United States, the University of Chicago. I mean, that's one of hands down, one of the best. Probably one, I think it's one of the top 10 national universities in the US and you gotta be pretty damn smart to get in there. You're an MD. How things were going so wrong in your life when you're so smart.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. That is, that right there is such a, an amazing thing because it's so true. I, what I was living I now kind of refer back to as the checklist quicksand, and there's lots of expressions of the checklist, quicksand, but the one that I was engaging in was I was living a life where I was slowly peeling away aspects of myself where I felt like I didn't kind of fit the mold. And if I could just force myself to excel and be good at the things that people say, it would make for a good life. Then if I checked all those boxes and did, I got a job at it, it would kind of be like a report card and I would get the A at the end. Now, of course, it wasn't that well thought out, but in general, that is how I behaved. Right? And so, I, to me I wasn't even going to be a doctor. I was actually a piano major and finished as a piano major. But I figured get a good do, do good in school, meet a nice man, you know, marry him, Excel at some sort of career training, and then do that, marry that man, have kids, and then at that point it was like, set it and forget it. Then I'd have life figured out and it'd be good. So, then I just kept excelling through the levels trying to achieve and eventually I found myself in medical school and internship and residency and achieving and seeking high more and more information. I was like, if I can know enough to do a good enough job at this whole life thing, then it will, I will feel good about myself, and my life will go well. Which I think for a lot of people, that's what the thinking is and that's why I try. I was working incredibly hard and studying and trying to do good at everything. And it was honestly exhausting. So that very checklist was creating a greater, that the rest of me that was piling up, that had to be peeled away to create that artificial look, that part of me was piling up to make quite the quite the Alex over there. And once that hit a tipping point, and once it, once I failed to check off some of the boxes and things started to crumble, that's where that other part was like, oh, hey, remember me over here? And that's where really a day of reckoning came in, in, in all of that false structure that I had created in my life.

Jim Fortin: That's great. Thank you, Alex. Lemme go here. So, you created this, which is what people do, this facade, Alex, the job, the husband, the, I mean, holy mackerel. I can think of easier ways to get ahead in life than going to medical school. Okay.

Dr. Alex: Right.

Jim Fortin: So, but you did it all, I mean, medical school and did you go to University of Chicago Medical School?

Dr. Alex: No, I went to Rush Medical College also in Chicago.

Jim Fortin: Okay. But you know what, that's a big price you paid to try to create the life you thought that you wanted. What you called the, what is it? Quicksand checklist, I think you called it.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Checklist quicksand. I was just, you're just drowning it. It's like a to-do list too, you know?

Jim Fortin: And you're creating this, and you did. But

Dr. Alex: I did,

Jim Fortin: Lemme ask you this, were you happy?

Dr. Alex: Oh, I was absolutely miserable. But I was so fragmented within myself in the, especially these two major aspects where there was the illusion of me that I had created out in the world that I thought was pleasing to others and would create a good feeling inside. But then, and as long as I was in that part of myself, then I could, I actually did a pretty good job of lying to myself. People, you know, people would say, I am, I'm happy and I'm optimistic and I'm bubbly, and whatever, right? But unfortunately, there was that other part that had been shut out for virtually, you know, the whole time that I had been alive. And that part. Wasn't getting a lot of those needs met. It didn't get respect for me. It didn't get attention from me; it didn't get notoriety. Really. That's where that part was hurting so much. So, when I went into that part, I saw what I really was, and it wasn't a full picture until the wall between them came down though.

Jim Fortin: Hang on. But people listening, the part one part is the facade, Dr. Alex, the other part is the soulful Alex. Is that correct?

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: I wanna make sure I understand. Okay. So

Dr. Alex: Well, maybe authentic. Yeah, authentic, Alex. Yeah.

Jim Fortin: Which is soulful.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Who I am.

Jim Fortin: You introduced the parts because you really looked at it, basically where you were is I created these things, but I'm not happy still. There's something majorly missing in my life.

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: What happens when these two parts met?

Dr. Alex: Ooh, that, that was a pretty gnarly meeting. It was a, I like to tell a story. I remember being a kid and my dad and I were driving, and I saw a turtle in the road, and I was like, dad, watch out. And he swerved around it, and he pulled over and then the, this guy in a huge pickup trail went and it just crushed the thing. Right. And I ran over, and I looked down at the turtle and it was all cracked and stuff, and like, the feeling that I had as a kid. I really loved, I love animals to this day, but I was a kid. It was really a big deal. You know? It was like the whole world. And I looked down and it was like the care that I felt for that and the disappointment and then the hatred that I felt for that careless person that had done that,

Jim Fortin: Right?

Dr. Alex: So, like, thoughtlessly and was gone. And that feeling, that was like the, that exact feeling was how I felt when the crack formed between me and me where I looked. And it was like realizing that I had been looking for what I was missing, and I was the one that had shut it out. And that part that I could simultaneously be and see from the other side was so angry. I. Just of being gaslit and locked out and not listened to and misinformed, disrespected, and there was just so much hate and anger there.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And that like, really that visual and that feeling that I had, I, that's what it felt like so much. And it was overwhelming, but it was the start of the resolution, which, you know, I didn't know at the time, but I had crossed the 50% mark. It was like half of it to just to see what it was, and then I could start the other half.

Jim Fortin: Let's go here to simplify for people listening. I understand your story, but I wanna make sure they do. Let's put it in seven terms. You have decided, when you talk about crossing over there, you have decided that you're going to live your life from your heart and the way that you, through what comes through you and your gifts, your talents, and you were upset because you were deceived by the world about all these things that you were supposed to create that were actually not fulfilling, but hurting your heart and your soul, and your dharma and everything else. Is that fair?

Dr. Alex: Yes, that's definitely fair. Now, I would say in that moment, I didn't even have that level of thinking in terms of clarity,

Jim Fortin: Right?

Dr. Alex: What I knew was part of me was happy, part of me was broken. They were seeing each other, and a conversation was taking place, and then in that discussion, it did unfold that, yes, I'm so sick of pretending to be something I'm not. I'm tired of peeling away and cutting away aspects of who I am to conform to what I think should be. And yes, I was pissed about the messaging that I've been told and where it came from and how I had gotten it and things like that, you know, worked through it. It, that's not much, it's just a matter of taking time to work through something like that, but it really was what the, I was madder about the choice I had made to listen and to participate as much as I had. And so there was some definite trust lost where even though I could see the two aspects of myself, they had a hard time even forgiving each other for a minute there.

Jim Fortin: But you did it before differently.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. No, it's true. I didn't at the time,

Jim Fortin: I grew up, I don't like this word, but I'm very wealthy today and I grew up dead broke, and I spent that way for 30 years of my life, even though I went to good, good College and everything else. And it was messaging, meaning what I was told about the world, about what's possible, what's not possible. But I never one time thought, oh I'm doing without, and I'm eating tuna fish out of a can because of what I learned and what I became at an identity level. I never even thought that way back then, but that's where it happened. Now I want to go there.

Dr. Alex: Absolutely.

Jim Fortin: I'm say a word and then just I'm curious, is your reaction or where you want to go with this word? Suicide.

Dr. Alex: Suicide. Yeah. It's a big one and a lot of people are scared to say it. So, I'm very happy, first of all, that you are just calling it what it is. I feel like there's a lot of talking around difficult concepts to talk about, and a level of authenticity, which I have chosen to embody since kind of undergoing this transformation that we're talking about is just letting things be actually what they are, right? And just using the words and just laying it all out there and being real and having the courage to do so. So, I love that first of all.

Jim Fortin: Thank you.

Dr. Alex: And second of all, I have an interesting relationship with that word. So, in that fragmentation, you know, as I got more and more split the pain that I felt was really intense. But it's interesting that even though I became what I like to call existentially suicidal, I'll explain what that is. But in that I never really identified as a depressed person or as a suicidal person because most of the time I was putting on a happy face, shoving down my feelings and moving it right along. Right?

Jim Fortin: Right.

Dr. Alex: And then only sometimes, you know, at night or when my own chronic pain got bad enough or something would happen in my marriage, that I would allow myself to acknowledge what I was really feeling. And that's when the pain would be what felt like insurmountable, and then I could put the lid back on. So, in some ways, even though I'd have bouts of issues, Whereas like these hurts so much. I never really identified with someone who lived as in that way and. I think that highlights so clearly how much we have just societal misunderstandings of what a depressed person looks like, what a suicidal person looks like. Because a lot of times it's, don't talk about it, but this is not cool to discuss. And then something happens when people are like, oh no, but they look so happy. What could we have done? Right? How could we have known? And part of this discussion is like people just being willing to share experiences because oftentimes it doesn't look like what we think. And so many things about life are like that, right. What we think business should look like, what we think good relationships should appear like, all of that stuff. And then the same relationship with who we are and how we exist in on this planet and the role that we came here to play and are matched to that and the, you know, alignment or misalignment of that those issues can create a lot of different feelings that are not easily encompassed in just one blanket statement of what suicide or depression can be. And it wasn't really until the crack formed between the two where I really began to see how much that had permeated. And in some ways at that time, that was the culmination of my experience with the idea of suicide and of electively saying, how can I stop this? What are my options to stop this pain? And can I, and I think like any reasonable person, you think through all the options.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And eventually it can begin to permeate. But really what I realized at that time was that idea had taken hold so early on. I mean, probably four was the first time I was like, what if I ran across the street right now? Right. Or something like that. And that, that idea followed me through until I could conceptualize it to a level where then in its culmination, I began to learn a lot about how I wanted to think about life, how I wanted to conceptualize why I was here, and what it was supposed to look like, what I was supposed to look like. And at some level then it became a decision that I had to make and not for anybody else. Not because I was told it was wrong, not because of anything else other than me making the decision of what does my spirit wants to do? And at that point, that actually kind of ended that season. But also started a new one where I began to heal and as I got distance from it now a lot of the work that I do is informed by a lot of those struggles and a lot of the personal pain that I went through giving me an insight into what else is happening for someone else and how I can help assist them in that.

Jim Fortin: Whoa. Okay. Thank you for that, for sharing. And there are a lot of people listening that don't identify with the word suicide. A lot does. Or I'm at, I'm just tired of life, or I'm worn out. Let's go to a lesser degree. If someone doesn't identify more fully with the word, we'll get to that word. You'd mentioned existential suicide. Professionally, what guidance would you have for them? If I'm just, my life is humdrum, I just, there's gotta be more. I'm not, I don't know if I'm asking the right question, meaning I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired in life. What's your response?

Dr. Alex: Yeah. For me, I think that the answer is finding wholeness and to get there is taking out the walls that maintain fragmentation and that goes back to who we are. And the way that I personally think through things is in the four bodies, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. But ultimately, for us to be in a physical body here this lifetime, it has to meet and culminate in this physical meet suit that we're walking around in. And that has a brain essential nervous system that hard wires things.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And so for me for that the things like choices, like choosing and exploring things like why you're here and if what you're doing is truly in service to that, or if what you're doing does not match what you're living, what you're thinking, what you're breathing, what you're eating doesn't match then making that fit. And so, to me, it all ends up eventually needing to be hardwired in the new identity of how do I fit in and what is that? And my personal take on is it's best if it's self-directed. No one can really tell you who you are. And so, part of that process has to be you making one decision at a time of how to chew through them, it's like how do you eat the elephant, right? It's this elephant of, I don't know why I'm here. I feel like I'm floating. I feel like life is hard. What do you need for each of these bodies? How does it go back to this new place of saying, okay, I want to have a different experience. So how do I begin to reinforce that in this physical apparatus that I do have? So of course, we can talk about, there's so much to discuss in each of those, whether it's support for the physical body, like supplements and neurotransmitter testing, looking at serotonin, dopamine, balance, norepinephrine, epinephrine levels, right? Like all those things matter because that's the conversation that the brain's gonna tell the rest of the organs what to do.

Jim Fortin: Yeah,

Dr. Alex: It's kind of like how people test hormones. They get the blood levels and no idea who told what and how they got broken down. Right? So physical bite, emotional bite. Can I be so repressed, right? Like I couldn't name emotions. I had about five that I could choose from. And I didn't know how to process them. I didn't know how to move them through my body. I didn't. All of those things. And in each of these categories, how do I choose my thoughts? How do I say, well, thoughts come and maybe I don't have to land on that first one, but I can double down on the second one I like more, you know, and having strategies in each of these areas. So of course, that is a lifetime's worth of work to unpack all of that, in my opinion. And that's what I do. But when it comes down to it, it's quick and dirty. It's the meeting of you and deciding what that's gonna look like going forward to me is the answer.

Jim Fortin: So, I thank you. Thank you. And I'm sitting here. I'm mind boggled because in T C P we've had many people that are far more educated than I. Many PhD's, Harvard MD's, people like you. What the hell? Why are they in my program? So, the Transformational Coaching Program. So, you enrolled, what did you want our time together to do for you?

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Well, first of all, T C P is a no-brainer. I mean, to me, and yes, you did not tell me to say this, but to me as if anyone's gonna do anything, I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for my education. It is better to go do T C P. Okay? You wanna become a doctor later, great. More power to you. You'll be able to do that, but you, none of that's gonna matter until you've taken care of yourself, right? And decide what you want in life and what you're gonna do and all of that. And so, and become intentional about it and lost all the crap that gets in the way of that. And so that, first of all, yes, we are all there because if going to University of Chicago wasn't enough, I wouldn't have been there. But it wasn't right. I was still, that existential crisis was real, and I lived it. And none of that knowledge, the book learning helped any of that. And it never was going to, because that when it's the existential of I am, I'm in pain because I don't understand what I'm doing here, then there's no book learning that you can find on that has the answer to you and what you should be doing here. And thank goodness, because it's really up to us to, maybe we can preset it, but doubling down is still a choice, right to actually live it in this life. And that's why if it was planted, then we'd all be screaming about lack of free will. Right?

Jim Fortin: Right.

Dr. Alex: So, we don't wanna do that either.

Jim Fortin: Right.

Dr. Alex: And that is why you can't find the answers out there. It does not matter how smart you are. It does not matter how good you are at memorizing. What people need is to take that feeling off, I'm confused, I'm lost, I'm stuck, and there's only one choice to make. Are you going to sign up for things that matter like this? Right. That was when I was signing up for TCP. That's the only thing that I asked, because to me it's like if I'm not gonna do this stuff, I'm not gonna take the action. I'm not gonna look deeper within me and choose to change. I can just watch tv. It's honestly cheaper.

Jim Fortin: Okay.

Dr. Alex: Right.

Jim Fortin: Thank you. Yeah.

Dr. Alex: But if someone's like really serious about wanting to resolve the pain and the discomfort, then there's really, am I brave enough? Do I have the courage to take action? Will I put my money where my mouth is and do it? Even if it's like, I mean, I talk about this a lot with people because a lot of people are like, I'll do anything to, you know, have the health that I want, or I'll do anything to get out of this. And then you're like, great, you wanna do this? They're like, no thanks, I'm good. Where was that energy, you know, 10 minutes ago? Yeah. It's kind of just making the decision of am I actually serious about wanting to be better and then being honest If the answer's no, cool. And if the answer's yes, actually figuring it out. And sometimes what it looks like is getting 0% interest cards or PayPal, they're six months. It looks like for me when I got divorced, I slept on the ground for a while on a hardwood floor, and that sucked. But you know what, I wanted that money for coaching, and I put that money towards coaching and my ass slept on the ground. You know what I mean?

Jim Fortin: And yeah, I know what you mean, but most people won't pay that price.

Dr. Alex: Exactly.

Jim Fortin: That prize has rewarded me millions of dollars over. But I, Alex, paid that price like you did.

Dr. Alex: Yes, exactly.

Jim Fortin: A lot of people won't pay the price. I'm talking to all of you listening because we will step in there. I want, I'm tired of my life. I want, but we won't actually do what you just did, and I did to pay the price to get there.

Dr. Alex: You did. And there was one year where Megan and I, we were, our business was collectively making like $60,000 a while back. And then that we pay, we'd pay our bills and then split the rest, right? Between the two of us.

Jim Fortin: There's not a lot of money.

Dr. Alex: No. And so, then when I came to her and said, Megan, I found a $30,000 mastermind. I want us to do.

Jim Fortin: Oh geez.

Dr. Alex: Obviously, it was like, Alex, you're insane.

Jim Fortin: But wait, it wasn't mine listeners, guys we're not talking about mine right now.

Dr. Alex: No. Not,

Jim Fortin: And we're talking about something else. Okay.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Nope, it was, and no, it was great. It was the best of mine. We did it and it was awesome. So, I but this is it's the habit of continuing to make choices whether they make sense or not to anybody else, but in my heart, I knew a, we met we're meant to help more people than we were helping. And two, I couldn't do another year like what we had working so hard and not getting the results. Yeah. And what I was willing to do was literally anything. And that looked like signing up for the thing before we had it and figuring it out. And we did, and we quadrupled the next year, our revenue. Right. So, it's just, it's not This is not a, it's scary, but it's repeatable. You can do it. You just gotta be courageous enough to actually be who you say you are. And the trick to it though is that it's all on you. There's no reassurance, right?

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: There's, you don't have the control, which I learned about in T C P and still unpacking Jim. And, you know, the illusion of control, that was such a transformative lesson. Like every single week. And I've gone back to listening to TCP, like I've probably done 18 rounds just myself, honestly on my own. And so, but, you know, I can break down a sentence at a time and turn it into a whole journaling prompt. But what happens is that You just can go through and repeat the things that work and prove to yourself that like, it's me that did it. I can turn my life around and it's hard to wait through the gap of I changed who I am, but I haven't yet had my full world catch up in the physical. And I think that's where the allowance for things like taking care of the emotional body and the managing the mental body since they're so related is the resources that people need that make that gap tolerable, that give them the tools to make the experience what they want. Even in the waiting, even when the transformation hasn't fully taken place, I kind of liken it to leaping over the creek, right? You got one foot here, one foot there, maybe you're still in the air. It feels really off kilter. And instead of being like guilt and shame, what I've really come to realize is like getting yourself the things that you need. And a lot of times that means putting yourself in environments that are supportive of the new you, not the old you, right? And so, groups, I'm so grateful that T C P is a group because I've made so many friends and really meaningful relationships in my life around and from it and in seeing the power of coming together, you're right. What's most personal is most general. And when we can come together and communities like that, It's not so hard. These, the pain that we feel and the sorrow that hits at two o'clock in the morning, like all of that stuff when you have a safe place, but not one that is willing to stay stuck in the mud.

Jim Fortin: Enabling you.

Dr. Alex: Right, that Yeah, they, this is a place that feels you and uplifts you and asks you to reach higher. That's like the best that we can ask for because in this self-led adventure that we're on, it's mostly a matter of being around people that can help you excel at it. And so that, you know, I guess it kind of comes full circle. It's kind of like instead of excelling at school, what does this look like? What makes me excel at living my life, your life? Looks like, what is the A for you? And that might mean, wow, I wasn't mean to myself in my head today. That's awesome. I got an A from it, you know?

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: That I didn't, I felt that sadness, but I felt it move through my body. I helped it do so, and then I saw the freedom on the other side and something as simple as that. I get an A for that and in that view, and that when once that shift happens, there's so much more intentionality in the choices. We can hear information. Like the things that I hear in TCP now are so different from when I heard 'em the first time.

Jim Fortin: Right, right. Yeah.

Dr. Alex: Because I am, I'm different and it continues to unfold, and then I get to become whoever I choose next.

Jim Fortin: Yeah. No, a lot of people.

Dr. Alex: That made it fun.

Jim Fortin: Amy just talked about that earlier. Someone else at T C P that I interviewed really good. And she said the same thing as you, but different and not, well, a lot different. But she said, and this is how I live my life, so I understand this, and this is what we do in T C P. When you shuck off the old layer and you can breathe, you're like, this is a good feeling to be able to breathe. I like to breathe and now that I can breathe, now I can run. Whereas in the past you might've been just stuck in the quicksand. Now you're out of it and you're like, woo, this is good. And I ain't ever going back to that place again.

Dr. Alex: Right.

Jim Fortin: Lemme go here for a second. In T C P I know it was you, but I remember one time. Because in the group, as you know, we all share. And you're welcome to share anything from the heart, no judgment, and people, it can get messy with things people are sharing.

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: Weren't you having any, weren't you having an extreme crisis and are one of the rounds of TCP and you're like, guys, I'm having a hard time.

Dr. Alex: Yes. That was me. And in fact, I can remember multiple times where I leaned on the community, which was really important at the time. It was a beautiful mirror in so many ways for me to see love back, to see care back, to see perspective and clarity back. And also, there were things that I realized needed to come from me or the things I wanted to create out in the world that I filled in for myself. And without that mirror, you don't have that perspective. You don't even know what you're missing, right? Like if no one right is jiving with you, then there's nothing to work with in terms of what you're developing and

Jim Fortin: Right.

Dr. Alex: And so, it was very instrumental for that and. It was one of the important playgrounds that I had at the time where I could be authentic. Because even back a couple years ago when I first started at T C P, I was still chewing on, struggling with this concept of being a relatively conventional medical doctor in my training. Like I do have functional medicine.

Jim Fortin: Sure.

Dr. Alex: Training and worked for companies there too. And in that space and in business. But that view, there's a certain opinion that people think that I should be one. I don't even look at it; people don't think I'm old enough. People think I'm too much of a female and you know, like.

Jim Fortin: What you're saying and what I'm hearing is what I say people, but you've said it better. The world kept you trapped in that mold, but you didn't know the world kept you in the trap, in the mold, and they didn't know they were keeping you trapped in the mold because they're all trapped in the mold. Then when you get outside the mold and you're like, whoa, I lived in that mold that kept me trapped in that mold. Is that correct?

Dr. Alex: It is, except for I had like three molds. So, I had the work conventional, Alex, I had the woo Alex, like the spiritual side, the I'm very. I'm very.

Jim Fortin: Cosmic

Dr. Alex: Sensitive. Yeah. And

Jim Fortin: Impact

Dr. Alex: Expansive. And so yeah, the, there's a, the unknown, you know, of that. And, but then I had my little bubble of like, functional medicine and that kind of like health-conscious vibe, but there's a certain look to that too, right? Like, God forbid you get a flu shot if you're part of the like, health community, right? Like, how dare you because, and I'm like, well, the hospital makes me, but also, you know, like also I don't think I'm like going to hell for it. And so, it's, and then I had my work my home Alex and my home Alex had me, how I was, how my family saw me, how my ex-husband saw me, how my friends at the time saw me. And there was like, it was actually completely different all around. And I did. Actually, a phenomenal job is probably too good. Keeping them all separate. So, the people at work didn't know I had business. People in my business didn't know what I was like at home. What I, people at home didn't know that I was a hard ass at work. You know? It was just all kind of this mess. But it was all safe to me because then I could keep people's opinions away, you know? And so, yes, I had those molds of who I needed to be. It was exhausting. I mean, it's exhausting to be in one.

Let me segue here for just one moment. As you're listening to every single person in this eight-part series. You're going to hear the same thing. And I know you're going to hear the same thing. That is because I asked them all and I asked them, would you have gotten the same transformation from the podcast that you got from the live program, working with me and my coaches. Every single one of them, as you will hear, emphatically says no. Absolutely not. I've said it a lot of times. Listening to the podcast. I appreciate it seriously, very, very much. And I know that it's helpful when it comes to gathering information. But you know what? It doesn't transform your life from the inside out. Because you don't currently have the context to assimilate all the information. As you're listening to different interview episodes. You'll hear people that have been through my program multiple times say that they missed a lot of it the first time. Because they weren't the kind of person to get it, to understand it. And then later episodes and in time with me, meaning their episodes with me and more time with me and my coaching they get it at a deeper level, and it starts to become part of their permanent behavior.

That's not to say you won't start changing right away when you and I start working together. And my team and I started working with you, however, there's a difference between listening to something and actually putting it into practice. And that's what we do in the Transformational Coaching Program. Things you're listening to hear we put into practice. But in the transformational coaching program right here, you're only getting like 5% of what I talk about in the Transformational Coaching Program. And the program we like literally opens the doors big time. And dig into what's causing you to be stuck in life. So, you can listen all day long. But I'm telling you right now, you don't know, what's keeping you stuck why because it's subconscious. And that's where we help you in a live program. So, if you're serious and I do mean serious about your life transformation. That goes beyond just listening to the podcast. Transformation needs to be necessary in order for us to take action on it. It must be necessary that we create a better life. And if you're serious about a better quality of life. Then get on the wait list for my live Transformational Coaching Program Go to jimfortin.com/tcp the acronym stands for the Transformational Coaching Program jimfortin.com/tcp Okay. Back to the episode.

Jim Fortin: I wanna ask you something, Alex, and I'm listening here, watching you in a different way than all the time I've known you in tcp. A theme from the earlier bubble you were in is, A theme of this entire time together is that you grew up learning to do things to please everyone's perceptions about who they thought you were and that clouded everything in your life. Let me ask you this. Who were you trying to please?

Dr. Alex: My mother.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. I mean, I say that kind of tongue in cheek, although that was largely I, a lot of the stuff went back to childhood things. And so there, there was quite a bit of that. I think also that's where highly sensitive kids and kind of more aggressive households can sometimes really get the message that if they're, if they function as the glue, because you can send, if you can pick up people's emotions and thoughts and information that they're not saying out loud, you can see through the crap that they try to project. Right.

Jim Fortin: Which is how I coach, by the way. I just watch, they tell me.

Dr. Alex: Exactly.

Jim Fortin: Everything I need to know by watching people work.

Dr. Alex: Exactly. So then when you're a kid and you grow up like that, you're like, oh, mom's face looks like that. I better snap into this mode. And dad's face looks like that, and his body language says this. And you know, you grow up really managing it, but you, in some ways it makes you quite good at it. And I think it makes me a good coach when I coach people. But because I can read patterns really easily in folks, but then I think that setup is so common. I imagine the people that listen to this podcast probably fall pretty hard into that category. Because I don't think we always choose.

Jim Fortin: We do it.

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: But bible mechanism at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years old, oh my gosh, I gotta keep mother happy. I gotta keep daddy happy. So, we fall into roles not knowing we're doing it. Then we get to be 30 years old and we're still living those roles, but we don't know that we learn those roles. Yeah. Then we wonder why does some life work.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, exactly. And then what I realized was actually even worse, this one hurt, but I was like, I'm an adult who literally reads people's faces and what I have of energy to pick up information, and then I act a certain way so that I get love from them. I'm like, that is some manipulation.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: Like straight up. That was not my intention, but when I realized I was manipulating people, like in reality that's a strategy and I didn't know better, but at the same time, that's like a hefty realization. And when that hit, I was like I'm done. Like I can't engage in this people pleasing life anymore because I'm not a manipulator, you know? And to me it was. It was a big wake up call. And I was like, this is intolerable. I'm not doing this anymore because that's not who I am. I'm not proud of that. And at that point, that's when that was kind of the final straw where everything really crumbled because it's one thing too, I would tell myself stories like, well, how come they don't appreciate me? I did this for them, and I did that for them, and I did this. Right. I'm so great.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: But when I came into it, I'm like, wait, just because I didn't get something from them, now they're a jerk. Really? Seriously, that does not make me a great person. That makes me like everybody, you know, like, like what I'm complaining about. And that took a little while too, to shake off. And of course, that was part of the like, unhappiness with myself of learning like, whoa, there's some serious things that I've been repressing and ignoring. But at the same time, at that point, it was so motivating because it was so intolerable, I had to change.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And then I did.

Jim Fortin: That's why I keep that's why in T C P I never bathe myself. A lot of people give me, they wanna latch onto me energetically, and they want to give me a lot of credit. And you've heard me say, don't give me any credit. You go look in the mirror, you give yourself credit, you did the work, et cetera, et cetera. Because number one, if I allow myself to get into that, and I learned it from Don Xavier, it clouds my clarity. If I have clouded clarity, I can't see what you're saying when I'm coaching you, because I'm clouded by the lack of clarity because of my emotion for you. So that's why I just, yes, I keep the distance to some degree because I want to see what you're really telling me, so I can coach you, but I want to see it through your words, your language, your choice of words, your body language, your inflection. So, I can tell what's happening because when I have that information, I can go right to the root of the problem, but I gotta have that information. So, you get that.

Dr. Alex: It is so true because I think that it's, once I started to look for it, I realized how much I was hijacked by this fight that I was having to prove to myself that I was worthy. And it was this huge need for proving myself importance, like making sure that I could prop myself up and what all I needed to make sure that the world functioned good enough by my standards so that I could feel good enough about myself. And once that the crushing of the self-importance is a tough stage, I think, in people's lives.

Jim Fortin: And you're still working through it and so am I.

Dr. Alex: Yes, we are. But I think that the initial one, when you really are in the thick of it, is a doozy. And at the same time, it's so true because that's the first time I was like, I'm talking to this person for the first time in my life because I have never heard them without my own lens. And now I can you know, I'm at the point where I can be having this conversation and choose to act in a different way or from a different place and manage my mind and my thoughts and therefore my emotions differently in that interaction. And it was like, whoa, I'm, I don't know any of these people. And part of it was meeting new people and part of it was re-meeting the people. And then what's fun about this is that the people that I'm close with, that, that kind of travel in the world with me, so to speak and one of them is Megan my business partner. It's like we just have to continually re-meet each other every time, every. Every couple week, every month. It's like, I have to see Megan for who she is today, not who she was two weeks ago. And when you intentionally transform in a continuous way, like you're like, I experienced this. Great, let's do the next thing. Great. Who do I wanna be tomorrow? Great. Let's do this. And when you're living in that way without that, it's so painful. Because you're like, wow, well you always do this, and I always do that. And now it's not happening. But instead of being like, I don't need you to do any of that for me. I'm my own person and you are your own person and I celebrate what you're doing and today it's this and I like it, and tomorrow we'll figure it out. You know?

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And in, in some ways the weight of that, the weight of the expectations created by that is so heavy and it. It feels like if anyone's listening, they're like, there's a weight on my chest. Yeah. That's probably what I'm talking about. You know?

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And it, it feels overwhelming, but it's quite easy to set aside once you know what's going on.

Jim Fortin: This is why telling you my trade secrets. Why in T C P you see me do it. I love, I care about everybody in there, but very early in the program, I say, and you've heard me say this, I don't really give a shit whether you like me, or you don't. You know what? You're here for 90 days. My job is to help you transform your life. You're gonna yell at me, you're gonna scream at me, you're gonna be mad at me. And if you're not getting your money's worth. One, because I don't want to try to earn people's love and I mean, not respect. I don't want to try to earn their affection because in that cloud's my judgment, leading them through the processes that we're doing. And then I, you know because humans want to be loved, and that clouds my judgment. That's why I keep that, that little arm’s length away, that, hey, you don't like me. I'm good at that, but you know what. You're staying here for 90 days because I got your money. We ain't refund that we're done. And then people said like, week five, I want a fricking refund. Well, you signed an agreement, you ain't getting it till we're done. You're gonna, because I make them go through the 12 weeks to make them face their crap and their time together. And a lot of times they ain't gonna like me, but if I don't make 'em face their crap, they ain't gonna grow. So

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: Then they're done now.

Dr. Alex: Well, when I was thinking through different things and I was journaling I wrote one, one section was Jim is a petty tyrant. Right? Yeah. And,

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: Yes. That is to me I feel the same way. Is that the people who really hold up to a mirror to each of us. And I'm so grateful that you do what you do and that you created the T C P and that I could be in it. Is that when someone can hold a mirror up and say, hey, I invite you to look at yourself and see more of what's going on there. They are only ever bringing expansion and impact and growth and excitement and passion and creativity and wealth and prosperity into your world because the more of the walls within you that go down, you can say, this is all me. And then take that power that each of those parts held, pull it all together and use that personal power to create in the world. It is so much more powerful of a state to function from and so anybody that can do that, you may not like it at any given point. And let, there were.

Jim Fortin: Usually goes like it.

Dr. Alex: And it comes down to the brain, right? Like if you are rewiring the brain and it's, there's two things that the brain does, MD, right? Efficiency, survival. Yeah. And they're related. And so, as you take apart what you know and lose efficiency, the brain wants to let you know, hey, we're losing efficiency. And that's one of my primary functions. It has to communicate somehow. And that looks like symptoms.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: Discomfort. What? Pain, headaches. You have diarrhea. A bunch of stuff happens, right? Like the body reacts or anxiety or whatever it looks like. And then eventually it has to build up efficiency and steam in the new pathway in the brain. And now you're up and running. That feeling can go away. And the brains like it's been satisfied. But that leaping over the creek phenomenon is inherently destabilizing. And you know, now we look back to why you need community around you. Like if you don't have people that understand that you can call and cry and say there, you know else Mary Lou heard from me. Yeah. We both are in Portland at the time, you know, like if you don't have someone to reach out to or Lisa or Padma, I mean, I can Matthew, there's a ton of people that we've all been each in each other's corner. Like there's not that many programs that exist that you can go in. And now you hear me years later listing off people. Like these are still people I know.

Jim Fortin: They hang out. They come to cry to Sedona all the time. I meet 10, 8, 10 people at a time coming Because you meet lifelong friends.

Dr. Alex: Exactly.

Jim Fortin: Here's were,

Dr. Alex: So, it's like, it's not that hard to decide. There are only so many choices of something that feels like this. So, if you can tell, go for the feeling. And when you get there, don't let the fear derail you. After that, you're up and running.

Jim Fortin: I'll put people, yeah. I'll put people through their fears.

Dr. Alex: So, I love it.

Jim Fortin: We gotta run. But here's the thing. Yeah. Thank you.

Dr. Alex: Thank you. And you're welcome.

Jim Fortin: I honor you. I love you. But here's, okay. You wanted to share some things?

Dr. Alex: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: What did you, what do you want to, what's your final piece? Very short of somebody says, gimme some advice for life. What's that piece of advice and where can we learn about you?

Dr. Alex: Ooh. Yeah. Let's see. So, ooh, set piece of advice for life.

Jim Fortin: Guidance, advice, wisdom. Call it what you want.

Dr. Alex: I would say I got to know you and that can be a little nebulous.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: As a statement. But what that looks like to me is gotten to figure out who you wanna be in the different. The context of your life, the different scenarios that you come across, how do they all inform each other and how can they work together more harmoniously in doing, starting that, a lot of what we talked about today automatically has to occur. You have to take down the walls to do that. And so, that is what I would say for that. We did,

Jim Fortin: Oh, hang on their lemme add one look at your shit. We don't wanna look at it. And that's one way to get to know yourself because we know self like, Ooh, I smell good. It smells like roses. I'm a great person. So, we know that side of ourselves, but we won't look at the crap that other people see. And so, if you get to know yourself, the yin and the yang, the crap, and the light you got, go look. Fair statement.

Dr. Alex: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Because I think that were looking across, once I started looking across different areas of life and how I showed up, I realized they were all different. First of all, that was the first realization. And second of all, I saw how many choices I had the agency to make and what I was actually choosing. And then the realization that I could choose something else instead. And it's a whole grab bag. cause some of it was great and I was the roses and sometimes I was the, you know, the poo. I don't know. You're both so to me looking across makes us, because when I was blinded, I could say, oh yeah, I'm gonna hone on business. Things are going great, we're growing whatever. It's easy to forget, conveniently forget about my thoughts, but in looking across multiple areas, my thoughts permeate it, right?

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And eventually you get, begin to see it. But honestly, this is not the kind of detail that I think people need to reinvent. It's why I teach, and we have our stuff, but it's also why programs like T C P exist. I do think a lot of people try to go reinvent the wheel for themselves, and it's like, why struggle for that long? Nowadays, people always point this out to me. They're like, the second you realize you need something; you've already hired somebody yesterday.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: And that's one of the things around, I'm like, I don't play anymore. I don't know why I'd sit around and struggle for this long when I know somebody else has the answer. So, to me, like, do yourself a favor. Save the time and Jim's already got the thing laid out for you. Like, you don't have to do it yourself. And I really do think that across. Everything that I do, and it's really has changed my life too, to function from that place.

Jim Fortin: Thank you.

Dr. Alex: And yeah, absolutely.

Jim Fortin: Where can we find you?

Dr. Alex: Yeah, so, you can go over to becomingzesty.com. So, Megan and I help wait.

Jim Fortin: Slow down.

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Uhhuh,

Jim Fortin: Breathe, doc. Okay. What's the URL so they can catch it and we're gonna put it.

Dr. Alex: Oh, yeah,

Jim Fortin: But spell it in.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, that's true. Oh, becoming, so B E C O M I N G and then zesty. Z E S T Y.com.

Jim Fortin: See, we would've missed having,

Dr. Alex: Probably so.

Jim Fortin: Becoming

Dr. Alex: Yeah, and I mean, you're lucky. It wasn't my doctor’s handwriting. Otherwise, if I had a leave, you a note, we'd all be, we'd all be in real trouble.

Jim Fortin: We're So becomingzesty.com we'll put that in the show notes, and you would mention that. I know we need to go, but I want to ask you something. You had mentioned that you wanted to make an AYNI offer.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Jim Fortin: I talk about a lot to people, but they, I was the same. I'm not tossing stones. I couldn't get my mind around what it was, what it would be to open my heart just to serve, to help people grow and evolve. So, the word we use is AYNI Ancient Incan and for reciprocity of life, you wanted to make an offer to people here. What does that offer?

Dr. Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I agree that AYNI is a sticking point. Cause that's the being before you have, it's like the lag, right? Because everyone wants to get first and then it's easy to give. But you know, honestly, the concept of AYNI from you taking it to heart has been one of the most transformative. If I would've paid it. Everything I paid for resigning it for T C P. Just for the AYNI. Yeah. Because so much when we started it, it changed so much of our lives and then we wanted to bring it into our business. So, what we wanted to do, what Megan and I wanted to do, we love this podcast. We have learned a ton from over the years. So, what we wanna do is invite you all to anyone who has not left a review for the podcast if you would do so, please. And then just five stars before you click it. Yeah, exactly. Five stars. Don't be playing. You know, it's five stars. Like where else are you gonna go? Like, stop. So, the yeah. And then screenshot before you hit submit. Because it takes a while to appear in in the iTunes side but take a screenshot and then email us. We'll put it in the show notes. Wait. Email you where? Yeah, we'll give you, we'll give you them, but it's support@becomingzesty.com. But we'll put it in the show notes for you. Our team will give that to you.

Jim Fortin: Hang on. This is what I'm good at, Alex. So

Dr. Alex: Yeah,

Jim Fortin: You could go give a review of my podcast, five stars. Before you hit submit, take a screenshot. Then you wanna email that screenshot to becomingzesty.com

Dr. Alex: Support@

Jim Fortin: When you do that, huh?

Dr. Alex: Yeah. Support@

Jim Fortin: support@becomingzesty.com. When you do that, then they are going to do X, Y, Z for you, which is what?

Dr. Alex: So, we are going to give you a free ticket. You don't have to pay anything at all. A free ticket to our two-day Habit Transformation Accelerator. It's a two-day event in Dallas, and we're also going to be getting, there's gonna be another it happens twice a year, so if you don't get on this one, it'll be the next one or the next, you know, next one after that, just email us. And it's to help you. Two days intensive about transforming and sticking to the habits that would most help support who. Who you're becoming and what life you're living. And so, it, we will cover what the physical body does and what happens there, the mental body, emotional and spiritual body. So, it, you'll walk away with the whole framework for sticking with habits for the rest of your life. And that's why it literally was built on the concept of AYNI Jim. Because a two-day event like that is generally thousands of dollars. I mean, we can easily charge 2,000 for that. We didn't do that. It's $297 because to us, we were like, no matter who you are to intentionally choose what you habitually do is powerful. And if we can help, the most amount of people do that, they can powerfully go on to transform their circles of the world. And the whole place gets more loving, more kind, more accepting, and this pain that so many of us are feeling. Or I'd say all we'll be supported, be, will be loved, and will ultimately be healed. So, we really have taken it to heart. Anybody listening, if you heard AYNI before and you've been like yeah, I'll get to it when I have money,

Jim Fortin: Right?

Dr. Alex: I encourage you to flip the script on. Cause honestly, Jim, that concept we charged less and made thousands and thousands of dollars. So, thank you very much and we are absolutely happy to provide your community with absolutely anything. Like just ask because we are just wanting to give back and to show our appreciation and the contribution that you've made to us and the world that we have impacted means so much. So, thank you.

Jim Fortin: Tell Megan thank you also.

Dr. Alex: Absolutely. Yeah.

Jim Fortin: So, people listening, she's not saying Go to that program instead of working with me. An addition

Dr. Alex: No

Jim Fortin: Working with

Dr. Alex: No, because my ours, these two days are just for habits, right? Yeah. And it'll be free. It's not the 2 97 if you leave the review.

Jim Fortin: For you guys to leave the review,

Dr. Alex: Yeah, for the review, it's free. And then get your buns into T C P because that's what you need the full picture of walking somebody, walking yourself through a framework that you can rinse and repeat. You wanna be able to do this the next time around. So, what are you gonna do? You know, you gotta learn who you are in a structure. And to me I'm a team. I mean I'm A T C P'er, so I can't say anything else, but honestly it is so powerful. I cannot say enough good things about it, and it can continue to evolve. And when something's amazing and is willing to continue to evolve, you know, you're in something that doesn't commonly exist. Right.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Dr. Alex: You know that.

Jim Fortin: Thank you spirit. You know, it's just, we're just vessels all of us.

Dr. Alex: Exactly.

Jim Fortin: Dr. Alex, I love you. Thank you.

Dr. Alex: I love you too,

Jim Fortin: So, so much.

Dr. Alex: Yeah, thank you for having me.

Jim Fortin: I'll catch you in one of the groups and

Dr. Alex: Yep.

Jim Fortin: We’ll see you soon. Okay.

Dr. Alex: Okay. Thank you. See you.

Jim Fortin: Okay, bye-Bye.

Thank you for listening. And I do want to remind you. If you're serious. I mean serious about your life transformation. And creating a much better quality of life. Then whatever you do get on the wait list for my Transformational Coaching Program. Let me ask you a question. Do you want to create a significantly better, healthier, wealthier, better relationships, kind of life for yourself? As you're thinking about that, there's only one answer. It's yes or it's no. Anything else is an excuse. And your excuses are what keep you trapped and in your old way. If you're serious about creating a much better experience of life, it's not about excuses. It's about taking action. That being said, get on my wait list for my live Transformational Coaching Program. Go to jimfortin.com/tcp and get on the wait list. And we'll let you know when we open the doors again. Thank you for listening and I'll catch you over on another episode. Bye-bye.