You’re listening to the Transform Your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This is another episode in the Conversations with a Sorcerer series, and this episode is titled Real Love Never Dies. This is a conversation of Don Javier back on August the 29th, 2021. So obviously a few years ago. And in this episode, he went to a few different places. We talked about 
 
true love and real love, unconditional love, conditional love. And then we talked about something that may be perhaps a bit alien to a lot of people, but a concept called twin flames. And when I talk about it, or at least mention a little bit about twin flames, what he shared with me about how a twin flame was created, that’ll probably be mind blowing for a lot of people. So if you want to hear more about unconditional love, real love and what that really is in twin flames. Keep listening. 
 
and ancient wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you’ve never thought possible. If you’re wanting a lot more in life, to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive, and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you because you’re going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you. 
 
I’m glad you’re here. Okay, so in this episode, we’re talking about real love and unconditional love and twin flames. Now, as always, my objective is that you have a couple of takeaways from each and every episode. It’s my objective that you find a couple of thoughts that you can hang on to, that you can assimilate and bring into your life, and you can apply that will make your life better. So in this episode, candidly, 
 
I thought it’d be pretty easy to create because it’s only like a 25 minute conversation with him. Candidly, it took me about four hours to put this together to kind of organize it in a way that’s cogent would make sense to you. So hopefully you get a lot out of this episode. So to quote Don Javier, love is unconditional. Conditioned love is not love to begin with because love never dies. 
 
He said that when love is not conditioned, it is forever and it’s not about physicalness. And the example that he gave, and I’ll talk some more about this, and that so many people make love conditional and about physical attributes or whatever it might be. So I want to, I want to dig into that in this episode, but the example that he gave was quote, elders, and he’s meeting people that might be in their seventies and eighties, elders. 
 
walking hand in hand and they’re old and they’re holding hands. And then he has a really good sense of humor and he said, they’re old and wrinkly and they still continue and they still continue holding hands. And that is unconditional love. And that goes beyond the physical. That is real love and real love never dies. 
 
And he said something that we all know, quote, we all change physically, but you cannot condition love. And he said, don’t put yourself in the things that are superficial. And that leads me to a story I want to share. I was coaching this guy’s about, I don’t know, five, six, seven years ago. He was the CEO of a company. Actually, he was the CMO of a company, the chief. 
 
I don’t know what a CFO there. There we go. CFO, very successful guy, very fit, worked out trim, good looking guy. And he was talking to me about this girl that he had met. And I met her also at an event that I spoke at, in my opinion, a very, very attractive woman in many different ways, physically, mentally, emotionally. I mean, she was just a joy to be around very pleasant person. And he said to me, 
 
That, and I look back now and I’m not judging, but I’m thinking about what he might have lost. What I want to say is that no one’s perfect. Everyone has something. It could be their nose, it could be their ears, it could be anything. You know, I remember, and this is not a political comment, but I remember Michelle Obama watching an episode of Ellen say, if you want to get to Barack, just make fun of his ears. And I mean, everyone has something. 
 
But this guy was looking for air quote, the perfect woman. And again, in my opinion, she was probably 40 at this time and striking, just a very striking, beautiful woman. And he said to me, he said, she’s getting wrinkles. Okay. My thought was everyone gets wrinkles. You know, someone that I’ve known for a lot of years. 
 
used to date Robert Redford, and he was a heartthrob in the United States for women for many, many years, for decades. Bob is like in his late 80s at this point. And many people, when they hear the name Robert Redford, they think of this handsome guy, movie star, et cetera. The guy’s an old, frickin’ very wrinkled man. That’s part of our process. That’s part of our time on the planet is that the body changes. 
 
but don’t have a hear said, and I’m going to repeat that and listen very carefully. Don’t put yourself into things that are superficial. That means looks. I’ll talk more about it in just a moment because we all have things that we find attractive. But many times, like this person I’m talking about, we refute or we pass up somebody that could be our twin flame. 
 
because they don’t look like the image of them that we had for that person coming into our life. And he said here, and I do my best, I’m doing my best to convey everything as accurately as what he said, because I don’t want to misrepresent anything because I would find that to be a violation of power to do that. But he says, when you find the unconditional love, then you find your twin flame. 
 
And he’s not advocating go be conditional with some people and unconditional with others, but he’s talking about when you find that twin flame of yours. And again, I will talk about that in the moment. He says, you know, when you find that person, you just know it, you know, it at a deep and profound level. And, know, speaking for myself and coaching people for many years, I know that 
 
We all have our wants and our likes and our attractions and our appeals and things that we find attractive. But I’ve also found that we don’t always get that in our twin flame. What I have found in my own life is that many times our twin flame is the one person that if you were on your deathbed, you had 10 minutes to live, you would want that one person there. 
 
no matter what. I’m only speaking for myself and having found my twin flame, the challenges is that many times and I have found with many people, our twin flames can also be one of our biggest, what I call, what I’ve learned from Don Javier, the word petty tyrants, meaning the person that pushes our buttons and challenges us the most. They’re also the ones that you can’t live with them. 
 
but you also know that you can’t live without them. And the great thing about this twin flame is not only do they bring love into our life, they also bring us the opportunity to grow and evolve spiritually. And hopefully both parties in the relationship are growing and evolving to where they’re becoming stronger together. And then Don Javier started looking for, or he started talking about my sister. This was the group one night. 
 
back on this evening, probably seven or eight people, and we were having dinner. He was talking about my sister who was there, and he says, I was looking for her. And when I found her, now he’s a shaman, so he can hear guidance, and he always works from his guidance. He says, when I found her, I was told that is her. And he said he found her, and it’s really not all that relevant here, but he said he was walking through the mall. 
 
because he used to own clothing stores, high end clothing stores in the malls back in the eighties. And he goes, I was walking through the mall and it goes, they said to me, that’s her. And he goes, even before they said that I was looking for her and I didn’t care if she was overweight or whatever. I knew that I was looking for that other part of myself. 
 
And my sister chimed in, we were all laughing about this, pretty much my family, everyone in my family has a really good sense of humor. And my sister chimed in, you had to be hoping that I was hot. And he says, I was looking for you, but that wasn’t the case that I was looking for you to be hot. He goes, but when I saw her, I was like, whoa, wow, I didn’t know how to approach her. And I didn’t know how to my 
 
how to address myself to her. So what he meant was, is I mean, you don’t just walk up to someone and most people don’t know what a shaman is, a real shaman. You don’t just walk up and go, hi, my name is Bob. I’m a shaman. By the way, you’re my twin flame. He said, I wasn’t sure. So what he did is he owned several high-end Versace and Givenchy and different Hugo Balls high-end clothes labels in the mall. And he offered her a job. 
 
And I was joking and I said, did he offer you a raise? And she said, no, he didn’t offer me a raise. He went on to say in this conversation after that little segue there, he goes, I was looking for my twin flame and trust me, it’s out there for all of us. So the story that I was telling about this person earlier, that he met this amazing woman. Now I don’t know whether or not she was his twin flame. 
 
But you ever met anybody before and they’ve got this amazing appeal to them. You just feel good when you’re around them. I mean, they’re just a really enjoyable person to be around. And that was this woman, but he was looking for different wrapping, meaning a different body. And my comment is if you’re looking for the wrapping first, you’re looking in the wrong place. I’ve been with my twin flame for 22 years. 
 
And I remember in Australia, I think it was 2021 on the spiritual journey of Don Javier. I did what I was told to do, not by Don Javier, but I heard it somewhere else. Write down this ideal list of what you’re looking for in your partner, meaning their height, their eye color, their occupation, their characteristics, all these kinds of things. Well, physically, my partner was none of those things. So the wrapping wasn’t what I 
 
what I had on my wish list. And characteristically, all of that was there, but the wrapping wasn’t there. But I remember, and I’d forgotten about this, even when I laying out this episode and thinking about it, I had forgotten about this until just now. And that the wrapping wasn’t there. And even though my partner is very attractive physically, it wasn’t what I had on my air quote on my list. And I remember that 
 
When we started dating, I think maybe four or five times the first month, I said, I don’t know if this is a match or not. And my partner said, I need to buy new tennis shoes because I’m chasing you and you keep wearing me out chasing you. And when I stopped that, we coalesced, we moved into a relationship. And I’ll talk about that in a moment, but I know. 
 
I know this is my partner. And if you’ve ever met my twin flame, which I’ll talk about twin flames in a moment, if you ever met someone and there is this intense emotional, non-explainable attraction that may be your twin flame, just be careful of the wrapping and judging by the wrapping. So as I said, this conversation bounced around a lot and there was someone in this conversation that I just met. 
 
a new woman and someone getting divorced from his wife. And he’s now with his twin flame, but he was getting divorced from his wife in this moment. And Don Javier said, I made a note here is I’m not sure who he’s talking to in this conversation, but he said, change is required. Now pay attention here. If you’ve separated from your partner, your lover, and you still have feelings and you want to get back with this person, 
 
What many people do is they think if you change, things will be good and then we can get back together. And what I’ve learned in my own life, it’s not about pointing our fingers saying, if you change, what we have to look at is yes, that person has to create change. But what we have to look at is what change must I create in myself? And Don Hovier said, if you’re wanting to get back with that person, 
 
then you have to change. You have to be different. And he went on to say, not by your rules and your rules about how things have to work, but you’ve got to look at how do we have to change to make things happen? Now ponder that because right now, statistically, 50 % of you listening to this, if you’re in a relationship or been in a long-term relationship, 
 
You’re either in a great relationship, which is very rare, one that needs work and a lot of these do. Mine always has and still does. And that requires me to grow and my partner to grow. But 50 % of you, if you’ve been in any kind of long-term relationship, you’ve been out of it or you’ve been divorced. I think the divorce rate in the United States is 53%. So what we have to look at, I’ve seen before, many people going from relationship to relationship. 
 
thinking it’s all about other people and never looking in the mirror and recognizing that it’s all about them. Now I know when I opened this episode, I talked about twin flames and et cetera, and we’ll get there, but I’m laying a foundation because this really is about relationships as well. And I talked about unconditional love and twin flames are also about unconditional love. And what I noticed in my own life about change is 
 
that many of us try to make a relationship change by our rules, meaning you have to be X, Y, Z. You should do A, B, C. You should be E, G. Why aren’t you this? Why aren’t you that? How come you’re not on time? How come you’re always late? How come you’re not finding what you want? Whatever it might be. But so many times, we ignore the deeper connection because of the rules we have about our relationships. 
 
Now caveat, common sense here, if you’re with a person who is sucking you dry emotionally, mentally, financially, however it might be, that you want to look at that. This is not about enabling someone to literally take advantage of you. It’s simply being aware of what I’m sharing with you. So Don Javier went to say is about this person that’s getting separated. She was making your life miserable and communication is the key. 
 
Change is required of you and you must communicate that if you’re thinking about getting back together. You’ve probably heard before a lot of people that have been in longer term relationships will tell you that communication is key. But I’ll talk about why a lot of people don’t communicate in just a moment. So next, he jumped around in this conversation and because this is a recording from a few years ago. 
 
I don’t know who he was physically looking at in the room, but there was someone else in the room that had just met a woman and he was asking Don Javier if she’s the one. He can see that. He can see your karma. He can see your, your, your luminous body. And he said, you can ask me if she’s the one and I will not tell you. And I know that he won’t tell you because he’s not allowed because if he told you, 
 
then that prevents you from coming to the realization yourself. And that could lead you in the wrong place. So he’s not allowed to interfere in any kind of way. And my sister said to this person, this guy, do you think she is the one? And he said, yes. And I said, do you know she is the one? And he said, yes. 
 
And in that moment, my gentle comment was, if you know it at that kind of level, that is definitely something you want to explore. And someone else in the conversation said, hey, Don, I’m not convinced that there is just one. And if I recall correctly, because I don’t have it in the recording here, he did say we can connect with more than one person. But when it comes to our twin flame, there’s only one. 
 
and I’ll cover in just a moment what a twin flame is. So as I just said, we can find people that we’re compatible with, but it doesn’t mean they are the other half of us. And I remember the first time I saw my partner, it was May the 4th of 2021. And the second I saw my partner, it was in a bar, across the bar, I just knew. 
 
I didn’t know how I knew, but that’s my sense, but I just knew. And I can’t tell you, maybe you’ve experienced that, maybe you haven’t, but you see someone and it’s like a lightning bolt of epiphany of awareness of like, aha. And I just knew it. But I wanted to point out also, my partner and I, is this every relationship, we’ve had our ups and downs, we’ve been in couples therapy and 
 
Long-term relationships can be a lot of work, but the key is communication. And I’m just being transparent here. There have even been times when things got really rough with us. And when I look back over the years, when a relationship is rough, there could be one partner that really does have a lot of crap and more than the other one and a lot of baggage. But you know what? In a relationship, they’re both carrying the baggage. So in the relationship, it’s a responsibility of both. 
 
to work through it and to communicate. Now, we’re being transparent here. I’m sharing this is about, I don’t know, 10 years ago, my partner and I had a rough patch. And I said, I wish I didn’t love you so damn much I could leave you. And I’m kind of laughing a little bit because I remember in that conversation when I said, 
 
You know, we had our ups and downs, but I knew this. If I were taking my final breath on the planet tomorrow, my partner is the one that I want there. If there’s no one else, my partner is the one that I want by my side. And I know that at the depth of my being. And when I said we have had our ups and downs, Don Alvarez started laughing and he goes, boy. And he was joking. 
 
because I would ask him a lot and I don’t know what my partner did because Don Avere keeps everything private. Even when two partners approach him, he didn’t share what the other one says and you wouldn’t even know your partner talked to him. And I don’t know how much my partner talked to him, but I did and I’m looking for guidance and awareness and growth and all these kinds of things. So back many years ago, I’m sure he got an earful and he’s probably looking at me going, my God, here he comes again. 
 
Anyway, I’m learning my lessons as well. I do want to repeat that when you find somebody, if they’re your twin flame, and again, third time, I will explain my understanding of what a twin flame is in just a moment. And that’s where the unconditional love that lasts forever is, even after this lifetime. But this is not about enabling. It’s not about being codependent on the person you’re with. 
 
It’s just that you know where you belong and who you belong with. I know that I belong with my partner. Now, as I look back over the years, what I’ve also understood is that we can enable each other. We can become codependent, et cetera. And that’s separate from being twin flames. So we’re twin flames who can be enabling and codependent. And we had to also work through those psychological issues and challenges as well. 
 
Many times when we’re wanting to find the right person like the person I talked about earlier who wanted the perfect woman, Don Javier chimed in and said, there’s no such thing as perfect. So this guy that was saying she’s getting wrinkles, he’s looking for perfectionism and I’m wondering where he is in his life today. Because many times I know people that might even be in their forties. 
 
And there’s nothing wrong with them per se. There’s nothing wrong with any of us. We’re all learning our lessons. But they get in the relationship, and mainly it’s my guy friends talking to me, but I’m sure women are the same way. And they’re like, well, she’s a little liver weak, or she’s not this, or she doesn’t know what she wants to do with her career, or she is this or that or this or that. Most of my friends are pretty health conscious. But what I’m noticing is 
 
You know, my partner and I, we’re both 59 years old. We didn’t have the bodies we had when we were in our 30s working out five times a week. I mean, we’re still trim and fit and everything, both of us, but the bodies change. When we embrace that at a younger age and we work from that place, we’re more likely to find the person that we belong with. And Don Javier went on to say about people looking for perfection, we cannot condition. 
 
Love. Don’t measure things in that way, meaning by looks. Now, of course, we have to have attraction, but the whole point here is no one is perfect. And Don Hovey wanted to say that when we work from that place of knowing and we’re not having those limitations of this person that I want in my life has to be a certain height, a certain body type, a certain this, a certain that. 
 
That’s really the key to knowing when we find our twin flame. Now I want to be very careful with his words because I don’t want to mislead anyone. And I think what he’s saying here to recapitulate this is when we let down those restrictions and those limitations of this person I want in my life has to be six foot two and they’ve got to have a great job or they’ve got to do this or got to be this or have this or look this way. When we let 
 
that down, that’s really when we’re more able to see our twin flame when they cross our path. In this conversation, Don Javier went on to talk about he and my sister, and I’m around them quite a bit. And, you know, I’ve spent, I don’t know how many thousands of hours, they’re family, vacations, holidays, everything together. And I can say with certainty, those two are compatible. 
 
a thousand percent, extremely, extremely. It’s like they’re one. They’re so compatible. And the same with my partner. It doesn’t mean there’s not friction. And I don’t know what they have in their household. I don’t ask my sister. I don’t ask him. It’s none of my business. They’re both in the planet. I would assume they both, they’re having things like everyone else. But when you look at them, you know that they are an interwoven compatible couple. And he said, 
 
this evening, she’s getting more more beautiful as she ages. And my sister has a good sense of humor. She’s like, yeah, according to you. And we were all laughing at that. But he said, as she’s grown, I’ve seen more beauty that I didn’t see before. He said, if I compared her to when we met, we both have changed. 
 
but I love her more now than I did when I met her. And that is unconditional. And he went on to say, if the love dies, it was then conditional. I’ll repeat it again. If the love dies, it was then conditional. So I asked my partner, I’m like, 
 
earlier today because I wanted to recapitulate this conversation with you and share it as accurately as I possibly could. And I said to my partner, what’s your understanding of a twin flame? And this is what he said, and this was my understanding also. So we both heard it in the same way, but I want to read my partner’s understanding of what a twin flame was as it’s been conveyed to us. My partner said, 
 
My understanding is that when a soul family comes into being, it’s like a big bang. The soul family splits into separate entities and then those entities into further entities. The final split is when you separate from your twin flame. So it’s not incarnation per se. 
 
it’s upon creation. So it’s basically when the male and female aspect of a split, every partnership, whether it be two males together, two females together, or a male and female, every partnership has a yin and a yang to complete the twin soul. Hopefully that made sense. But what we were told many years ago is 
 
And some people believe in twin flames, some don’t. In my experience of life, I’ve experienced what it’s like to meet and connect and be in a relationship with your twin flame. And to put it in my words, like I said earlier, I wish I didn’t love you so much so I could leave. Your twin flame, you may want to wring their neck and they may want to wring your neck. But you know what? It doesn’t mean that 
 
You’re not twin flames. It just means you’re working through, excuse me, your human shit, your egos. And I know a couple, they have been together 25 years or so, male and female, they’re in their seventies, they’re twin flames. But the thing is this, in my interpretation, again, my interpretation, they are best friends. I mean, they are amazingly good friends and they lived together as partners for 20 years. 
 
They’ve been separated for about five. They live in different homes, but they hang out together every single day. Now what I know about these two people, and they also are on a spiritual path. What I know about them is both of them have very strong egos in ways that things are supposed to be done. And if I had to guess, absolutely they are twin flames, but they have incompatible egos. And until they work through those ego limitations, 
 
That twin flame is not going to coalesce and come back together again. So my sharing is if you don’t have a deep and profound knowing when you meet someone, and I know that many of you have met that person and maybe you have, but you don’t even know it because you’re sewing your head about something. But if you don’t have that deep and profound knowing, then there’s a good chance, or maybe it could be conditional love. 
 
And then Don Javier went on to talk about happiness a little bit. And he said, it’s like happiness. You cannot buy happiness. It is unconditional. And you cannot find your way to happiness because happiness is the way and happiness and love are unconditional. And if you condition either, you have neither. There’s just a little off tangent here. Several of my friends, spiritual family and friends are 
 
I’ve done very well professionally. One of them drives a Lamborghini. And we were talking about in this conversation, another person in this conversation also drove an Aston Martin. And so in this conversation we were talking about, and Don Javier said, you can have a Lamborghini and you’re happy and you have it for a while, but then you see another car pass by you and then you want that other car and then you think you need something else. 
 
and you’re not happy with what you have because you’re putting conditions on it. So what I want to share with you is be careful about your conditions and explore what conditions you put on relationships and are they superficial conditions? We all have things that we’re physically attracted to. There’s no question about that. And I’m going to step out only speaking for me. 
 
I think if we’re in physical shape, we would want somebody that is in physical shape as well. This is really horrible to say, but a psychologist, one of my advisors, Dr. Maraldo, I was a psych major also, Dr. Maraldo, PhD, psychologist, said, I remember this when I was a sophomore in college. She said, the campus king will always find the campus queen and the campus ugly will always find the campus ugly. 
 
Dr. Maroldo did not mince words. And I know that we have the physical attractiveness and things that we find attractive. We need to be careful about how superficial we are about that. So your takeaways this episode is real. There’s the operative word. Real love is unconditional. If you’re conditioning love, it’s not real love. 
 
So the question for you is what conditions do you put on your lover and your partner? Think about that. Do you put conditions about, and even if you’re not telling them, do you put conditions about weight or looks or money? And people put conditions about status, mainly women, think, but women will say, I can’t marry a certain, I can’t marry that guy because he’s an artist and he didn’t have X, Y, Z job. 
 
I’ve heard that before from students. I know it exists. So what superficial conditions do you put on relationships? And that is not unconditional love. provided you do find, and you will at some point, provided you open your heart and you start working from not having conditions and you open up to it, you can meet your twin flame. But the key then, as I have found in my own life, 
 
And I found it to a great deal is communication is key. yeah, something else I said I would talk about earlier that I didn’t is this is a big challenge and relationships. Many people don’t communicate with their partners. They’re afraid their partners, they’ve been together 10 years, they’re afraid their partner’s going to leave them if they speak their mind. They’re afraid their partner’s going to leave them if they don’t want to do X, Y, job anymore. 
 
They’re afraid their partner is going to be mad at them if they don’t be or do or have or go X, Y, Z. They’re afraid to communicate. And I want to share something with you to wrap up this episode. If you’re afraid to stand in your power in a relationship, you have no power in that relationship. If you’re afraid to speak your mind, your partner controls you and you have no power in that relationship. 
 
So remember, your transformational takeaway is real love is unconditional. Thanks for listening, and I’ll catch you over on another episode. Bye-bye.