Jim Fortin: You’re listening to the transform your life from the inside out podcast. This episode is something I don’t do a lot of, but it’s an interview with none other than Neil Donald Walsch, if you’re a spiritualist, you probably have heard of Neil. He is the author of 41 books, the most famous being Conversations with God. In this interview, I didn’t want him just to recapitulate things that you know you could read in his books. You can go buy his books anywhere, watch YouTube or whatever. I wanted to talk to him about his perspectives on different things in life and, of course, spirituality. So in this interview. It’s very light hearted, very simple interview. It’s an enjoyable interview. The guy is very, very pleasant and very easy to talk to, and candidly, a lot of fun, as you’ll hear. He has a great sense of humor, which I wasn’t expecting, so I like to laugh a lot as well. He has a great sense of humor, but his rhythm would throw me off a bit, and I’d have to get back on track again. Anyway, an amazing guy, I’m grateful that he visited with us and enjoy Neil Donald Walsch, Hi, I’m Jim Fortin, and you’re about to start transforming your life from the inside out with this podcast. I’m widely considered the leader in subconscious transformation, and I’ve coached super achievers all around the world for over 25 years. Here you’re going to find no rah rah motivation and no hype, because this podcast is a combination of brain science, transformational psychology and ancient wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you’ve never thought possible. If you’re wanting a lot more in life, to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive, and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life, then this podcast is for you, because you’re going to start learning how to master your mind and evolve your consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want, then becomes possible for you. I’m glad you’re here. Okay, so I’m here visiting with the one and only, Neal. Donald Walsch, Neil, thank you for being with us today. I really appreciate it.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Well, thank you. It’s lovely to be here with you. Thanks for the opportunity and for the invitation,  
 
Jim Fortin: absolutely. And we were chatting earlier, and Neil did a little countdown so we can get started today, and we’ll probably go at 45 minutes an hour. We want to talk in just a moment about God. Talk your recent book experiences of humanity’s connection with a higher power. But in your book, you said a couple of things. I was making some notes as I read through it. I would love that you expand on some of the things that you said as it applies to your own life. Something you said in your book was quote, nothing comes to you unless you draw it to you in some way. Now, as I understand, the 1990s were very challenging for you. You broke your neck, you had a fire, you were homeless. Life was pretty much chaotic. What do you think brought all of that to you, or what? And you attracted that?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Well, it was something different in each each case, I lost my relationship, my marriage at that time, and it was amicable. It wasn’t with less of negativity. We just both agreed that it wasn’t working as well as we’d like. So we agreed to end that particular relationship. But I brought that on because I simply wasn’t behaving consciously in the relationship. So you know, very clear that the failure of that relationship, responsibility for that failure belongs to this guy. I’m pretty clear about that. I put a lot of trust in somebody who is babysitting my house while I was off on a tour. And I made a misjudgment about that person. They were a little bit more to use a word, flighty, than I would have liked them to be. They actually set my house out of there by leaving the house after barbecuing. They started a barbecue on the patio, and then they left the house, but they did not douse all the coals in the barbecue. And so then the barbecue is sitting there and start spitting sparks. And sure enough, literally set the house on fire.  
 
Jim Fortin: What do you think your biggest lesson was there? Because you’re the one in your book that said, and I am of the same belief, everything comes as a teacher. Everything is a blessing. But what? What were your lessons? When that happened, your house burned down.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: It was an unorthodox lesson. It was not a standard lesson. Lesson I learned was don’t think that you are your house or your car or your income or your possessions. In other words, let go of any thought that I am that. But I didn’t just lose my house. I lost everything in it, which was even more I mean. I could have lost the house, okay? No, no problem. I can buy another one, but I lost everything in it, all of my clothes, all of my children’s toys, all of my favorite items, you know, I just, I lost everything. So I was down to zero, down to nothing, and in terms of my personal possessions, and I realized, you know, it’s interesting to come home and find out that you don’t have any clothes left. I mean, no clothes at all, not one pair of shoes, not one pair of pants. Like no clothes at all. You have to buy an entire new wardrobe. What I learned was, I’m not that, and so many of the things that I identified closely with were no longer part of my life overnight, virtually overnight. So that was the lesson for me. There was be real clear who I am and who I’m not. Don’t imagine that I am that other item or that other person. Do you think  
 
Jim Fortin: you would have been able to create the body of work that you created if that had not happened? That’s a good question.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I can’t answer that because I don’t, I don’t know what I could have done if I hadn’t. Could I have gotten better grades in school if my partnership was more legible? So I can’t answer a hypothetical question like that, but I don’t doubt that the series of events that caused me to be at which end is no doubt is what motivated me to turn to God was anger. Yeah,  
 
Jim Fortin: when chatting with Gary, is he had all these things coming apart in his life, he had to look inward. And I’m curious as to the broken neck and the fire and everything else. Were those the situations that caused you to look inward and everything blossomed from that, you know, we should explain  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: when you say Gary, because we were talking about before he went on the air.  
 
Jim Fortin: Oh, Gary, he’s been on quite a bit, yeah, yeah.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: But just so people know what Gary you were talking about, because it could have been Gary Moore for all we know,  
 
Jim Fortin: Gary Gary Zuko, thank you for the clarity. Yes, he had something that there was a catalyst. And I’m wondering if these things these there’s  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: no question, no, there’s no question that they were a catalyst. I don’t think I ever would have, I want to say turned to God, nor would I have found the clarity that I found had it not been afforded for those catalytic events in my life. No question about it. And so in that sense, every change is a change for the better, because every change brings about growth, even if  
 
Jim Fortin: we don’t see it then, because we’re in our ego Exactly.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: And you know, I’ve asked a question of my audiences over the past 30 years, but whenever I’m in front of a large group, I will say, How many of you folks have had an experience in your life, which you thought at the time it was occurring was the worst thing that could possibly happen, yeah, only to find out two weeks, two months or two years later that it was one of the best things that ever happened. And every hand in the audience goes up, at which time I say to them, yes. Now the master is the one who knows that ahead of time. Master is the one who knows that while it’s happening? Yeah, I’ve had  
 
Jim Fortin: a lot of things happen, and I learned many years ago that every single thing that happens to me, no matter how much my ego likes it or doesn’t like it, it happens so that I may evolve and grow and I might not like it in the moment. But I’ve always found that something has come from that thing. Now I have very few guests by choice on my podcast, and I did prepare for our time together. And what I find is when I prepare, sometimes it goes right out the window because you said something that so many people deal with. It’s 52% of people in the United States, and I see this all the time, and my programs, you got a divorce right, from your first wife, or whichever wife that was or partner you were with, you got a divorce, or you separated back in the 90s, correct?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I had a divorce from my first wife, well, and then I had a divorce from my second wife, well, then I had a divorce from my third wife. Well, then I had a divorce from my fourth wife, then I had a divorce from my fifth wife, then I had a divorce from my sixth wife. So I’ve been with wife number seven for the past 17 years, which for me, is a record.  
 
Jim Fortin: I would think, after your record of six prior the last one for 17 years, definitely has something. This is a beautiful story. I didn’t know we had talked about this, but so many people feel trapped in their relationships. What do you think  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: causes that? I think our culture, there’s a cultural story that if you can’t make a relationship work, you’re a failure. Okay, not everyone buys into that story, but many people do. That story is reinforced by many of our religions and many of our other cultural tendencies that tell us, for instance, in the Catholic Church, if you get a divorce, you’re no longer allowed to receive Communion. Or if. You can’t be remarried in the church. That’s how serious it is, according to the Catholic theological doctrine. So that’s why, in my opinion, there’s so many people feel the way they feel, as you’ve described it with regard to their relationships. How do we know when to leave? There’s no one size fits all answer to that question. If there was a one size fits all answer to that question, I’d be a billionaire. But in general, 20 years ago, I would have answered the question when you’re no longer seriously happy in a relationship and you know, it’s time to leave. But here’s the answer I would give today, at the age of 81 when you experience that you’re hurting the other person more than you ever wanted to, that’s time to leave. I’ve  
 
Jim Fortin: never heard it put that way, and that is very powerful when you’re hurting the other person more than what you want to,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: more than you ever wanted to. And I don’t mean hurting them with overt actions like having an affair or physical challenges or whatever violence. Just say things or get into discussions, get into arguments and get into exchanges, and you really experience yourself week after week, if not night after night, hurting that person’s feelings deeply, where they look at you and they they can’t even believe that you’re saying what you’re saying, or doing what you’re doing, or failing to do what you’re failing to do. That’s what I realized at the age of 81 Oh, I see, I count the number of times every week that I actually could feel myself inadvertently, not on purpose, but hurting the other person. And when, when you feel like you’re hurting the other person more than you ever dreamt you would, and whether you ever wanted to, it’s time to propose a different kind of relationship. You know, relationships never end, Jim, they simply change form. Well,  
 
Jim Fortin: that’s what I was going to go next. What’s your thoughts on? Let’s just call it my phraseology on twin flames, meaning you come you travel throughout lifetimes and continuity with the other half of the year. As I’ve been taught. What I’ve been taught is in the Big Bang, one soul splits into two, and they travel through infinities and connect in different time space continuums What’s your thought on that? I think  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: it’s absolutely true. What’s I think it’s absolutely what’s going on. And that’s why my most recent marriage, and I try to make light of it. I was revealing that I had seven marriages in kind of a light hearted way. I try to be light hearted about my failures. But the reason that my present marriage has lasted 17 years is precisely because we met our twin flame when my present wife walked into my house the very first time I met her, we knew. We looked at each other, we went, Oh, here we go again. Of course, we didn’t say anything in that moment, but a few weeks later, after we had one or two social engagements together, we realized, oh yeah, here we go again. We’ve done this before. My darling and I have said to each other many times in the past 17 years. Boy oh boy, are we ever not just twin flames, but the same. You’re just me in a different body. You’re just you’re you’re mean. In fact, Jim, your camera probably can’t show this, but we both had a ring. Our rings say the same word in great on the top, O, T, H, E, R, and people say to me, when they see my wedding ring, what is your wedding ring? Say the word other on the ring. I said, because my wife is my other, and she wears the same ring on her finger because I’m her other. So we talk about each other as if we were the other side of the other half of who we are,  
 
Jim Fortin: I would imagine she’s someone that you couldn’t imagine being without on the planet.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: No, no, no, I can’t imagine.  
 
Jim Fortin: There’s so many people that look at people like you, and I’m just going to say it, they think that you have the perfect life and the perfect this and the perfect that. So very lighthearted question, what do you and your twin flame argue about or  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: disagree about? Interesting question, gosh, often is what the other said. You didn’t say that. You just said we were going to go there at five o’clock. You said five o’clock. She said, No, I told you 530 No, no, no, no, no. So the joke we tell each other is, you know what, whenever we start talking and I want to record you, because I’m telling you right now, you said five o’clock. No, I didn’t. I said 530 so. So you know, when we do have disagreements or arguments, it’s usually about tiny, small stuff that’s totally irrelevant to the larger issues of life. We don’t argue about the big things because we agree completely about our life philosophy, our theological point of view, our sociological agenda. We agree completely and utterly about all the major things in mind, but the small things, like, Honey, I asked you to put my phone down for me while I was going to go, Dude, where did you put the phone? No, you didn’t. You didn’t tell me. I didn’t. You know that kind of thing, right, right? So it’s always small stuff that we have an agreement. We actually have an agreement not to get into disagreements about small stuff. Yeah, I think  
 
Jim Fortin: we’re always going. There is so many people think that someone at I don’t even know the right word, Neil, your level, whatever we want, or however we want to define that, think that I don’t know how to say these words that okay, so you’re like a modern day spiritual master. You wouldn’t get into anything at home. You wouldn’t get into anger. You wouldn’t get into this.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Is that true? Well, number one, no, you thought was true. There’s no way in the world Jesus would have overturned all the tables in the temple and started shouting, You hypocrites, which, of course, he’s recorded to have done exactly that. And if he was a master, he never would have even come close to doing something like that. That’s interesting. However, I have disavow any thought that I’m a master or that I think that I’m a master. I’m I’m a master of nothing tumbleness, that’s powerful.  
 
Jim Fortin: I remember Barbara Walters asking the Dalai Lama one time if he was enlightened, and he started laughing, and goes, absolutely not, yeah. And so many people think, oh, that’s enlightenment, or that spiritual evolution, or whatever. And I see people at your level and different things, and working with a shaman for 28 years, people get into all kinds of things. We’re all part of the experience while we’re on the planet. So just curious about that. So a couple of questions about your new book. And as I was reading through it, your new book, which is titled God talk, experiences of humanity’s connection with a higher power. It was almost, in my interpretation, written like a compendium, like a Chicken Soup for the Soul. You had 20 different stories in there. And again, the whole premise of the book is that as people’s experiences with God, what prompted you to write it in that way? I wish I had a really  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: wonderful answer to your question. You’re going to be disappointed, because my answer is very shallow. The answer is number one, I was invited to write the book itself. Most authors write a book, and then they see if they can find a publisher who wants to put it out. And if you’re lucky, you have a literary agent. I’ve had the same literary agent for again, for 25 years. So if I write something, my literary agents just, you know, scours the the scene and see if you can find a publisher who wants to put the book out. But in this case, for the first time in my life, after 30 years of being a published author, my phone rang and a publisher called me. It’s never happened before in my life, but a publisher actually called me, got my number from my literary agent, and said, Would you write would you like to write a book for us? I said, I’ve never been invited to write a book. Well, what does he have in mind? And there was a lady who owned the publishing company. She said, well, we’d like you to write a book about how people can have the same experience that you’ve had. I said, Okay, I hadn’t ever thought about that in particular terms, but I can go ahead and do my best. So I sat down and thought about, how does it work for me, or how, how has it worked all through the years? And I came up with what turned out to be, I didn’t plan it that way, but turned out to be kind of a six step formula that could allow people to have at least the opportunity to have the same experience I had. Now, with regard to the 20 stories that was her idea with publishers, idea, she said, You know what I’d like to put on the internet a question. We’ll put it out there to the public, if you feel that you have had an experience of divine intervention, send us your story. So she did, and she reported to me about two months later that they had received hundreds, not a couple dozen, but hundreds, of emails from people saying that they feel they had a direct divine intervention in their life. So she picked out the 15 or 18, what she thought were the best stories of all, and she said, Do you mind if I put these in the book? I said, No, she wanted to make the point in the book that it’s not just one person who’s having these experiences. It’s not just about Neil or about Jared. Very well, it really is about Gary it’s about Gary Moore, but it’s not just about Neil. So she wanted to make the point that Neil is having an experience that’s common to everybody, or at least to many, many people. So she put those stories in the book, and then she asked me if I’d write a little one paragraph comment on each of the stories. So I said, fair enough. So that’s how that happened. So I’d like to say, you know, oh, it was my brilliance, my idea. I really wanted to do that, and it was the form that the book took in my mind when I thought about but it wasn’t, it was the publisher’s idea. They just told me what they wanted to do, and I said, You know what? It’s your book, do what you want. And they did. They did pick on, I have to say, some fascinating stories of people who wrote into them and told them how they feel God intervened in their life. Yeah, when  
 
Jim Fortin: I when I saw that and I started reading it, I’m like, this is Chicken Soup for the Soul format, which was done for marketing reasons, but it’s really easy to consume. Each person has a story. As a matter of fact, I told a friend of mine she was diagnosed with stage four cancer. She’s also a student of mine. I know how to heal after I had stroke and heart failure. I know how to heal, and I’ve been working with her, and she read a story I don’t know, 17, 1815, it’s way down about healing. And she’s like, this is what I’ve been looking for right here she goes this story in here about this person healing, and then just doing things you love is what I started doing, and it’s making me feel so much better. So I was just curious how you came up with that format, because it’s, it’s very consumable and, like, bite sized like that. Yeah,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: it was the publisher’s idea. I had nothing to do with it. All I did was write the first two thirds of the book, and she filled up the rest of the book with those stories, and that’s it. Do  
 
Jim Fortin: you have any favorite stories in there that maybe relate to your life? And you’re like, That’s me in that story. I could have written that same story, or, wow,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: written almost I could have written almost any other stories, actually, honestly, I could have written the story of the mother whose answers came through the vision of one of her children. I could have written the story of the scientist who had a conversation with God’s presence and changed his whole scientific ideas. I could have identified with almost any one of those stories. So there’s, there’s not one of them that was my, my very, very favorite one. And you’re right. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t even if there was, I wouldn’t announce it on the air. But I know the worst story I ever heard was from Gary you mean Gary Zuko, for Gary Moore, Gary swaswaluki, a guy who lives around the corner from me. I was just  
 
Jim Fortin: trying to clarify that. Just kidding, I figured that, but I wasn’t sure there. So I’ve not interviewed somebody that has a sense of humor like yours, which I like. By the way, anybody who knows me knows that I’m constantly joking and cutting up and having a good time. I mean to me, humor is healing. And you know what? You never know when you’re talking to people, where they’re getting their information, or who they’re how it’s coming in, or whatever. So I just try to roll, roll with it till I figure out exactly what they’re doing. Can I  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: ask you a question? Have you have you read any of the conversations with God books many  
 
Jim Fortin: years ago, back in the 90s, when they came out, I went deep, diving in a lot of that stuff.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Well, the reason I ask is because God had a great sense of humor. And lots of clever, funny things were said in those books, in those dialogs. And I remember saying to God, wow, you got a great sense of humor. And God’s answer, she said, Are you kidding? Who do you think invented humor? God,  
 
Jim Fortin: I love humor. And on that note about the humor, I went to Amazon and looked at reviews on this book. And of course, you’re going to have a lot of positive and some negative. And someone said in the reviews, they gave you one star. Mainly, it wasn’t about your work, but it was something you said you referred to God gender as she, and this lady was mad about it. What’s your thought  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: on that she has a right to be angry? My thought about it is good for you. Good for you for being angry about something you don’t agree with. Because if you’re something you don’t agree with, anger is okay. See, anger is one of the five natural emotions. To deny your anger would be unhealthy and not even honest, as I said a minute ago, when Jesus walked into the temple and found all the money changers in the temple with their tables out there and all of their merchandise, he turned over all the tables. He went table by table, turned over everything, and shouted at them, you hypocrites now so you didn’t deny his anger. So what would I say to that lady? Good for you, good for you for giving me one star, good for you for expressing your. Anger. You know, I’m sorry that we don’t agree, but I’m sure we can find a way to disagree agreeably, and if we can find a way to disagree agreeably, then we both at least agree on one thing that you can disagree and how to do so without becoming opponents. I love that. I love  
 
Jim Fortin: that in the book, also, you say that we’re talking to God all the time because we yearn for ease, peace, clarity and love all the time, and we project that longing outward in nearly every moment in life. So we’re looking for these things. But I had a question about people doing and I know that you’ve written some stuff on shamanism, and I work with a shaman, even though I don’t do do hallucinogenics and I ayahuasca and stuff like that. What’s your thoughts on people searching for God, using the hallucinogenics, ayahuasca and things of that  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: nature? I don’t have any particular thoughts on any particular process that anyone would use. Use whatever process feels workable and beneficial, genuine, honest and helpful to you. I don’t make a judgment, and nor do I have an opinion about oh no, no, you should you. You should use hackathon. Hoppe is hackathon. Hoppe is the best process of all, by the way beyond anything you’ve mentioned here. So we have to, we have to use heck of Becca Hopi, and it’s the process that’s the most, most powerful process that I know of with which to get in touch with God,  
 
Jim Fortin: I’ve never heard of that process in all of my years. Can you explain please?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Sure, I made it up just now as a joke. Okay,  
 
Jim Fortin: okay, and third time you got me. So now I know we’re gonna joke the rest of the way through. So let’s have a good time all the way through then got it. But you never know, because I live in Sedona, and we talk about Hopi, and this is, this is the the home of the Ancient Ones and things of that nature. So when you when you mentioned Hopi, the first place my conditioning goes to is reverence for the Hopi. Beautiful, full, almost full moon tonight. Also out over the over the mountains here in Sedona, all the chaos in the world that we see, politically, socially, economically, all these kind of things. I’m of the opinion that consciousness is and learning, that consciousness is evolving and changing on the planet. And you said in the book, God has brought us to such a place of challenge and even violence, understanding of God is incomplete. So the question is, what’s going on on the planet in your perspective, and then how do we know God well enough to end all of the chaos on the planet?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: What’s going on in my understanding, in my awareness, is evolution. That’s what’s going on on the planet. That is, we are a species evolving. Let me write, one day, write a book with that three word title, a species evolving, because that’s who we are, and that’s who we have been from the outset, but certainly deep, deep, deep now into that process, that’s what’s going on. Your second question, or, how do we know how  
 
Jim Fortin: well the next question is this, so to speak, is, how do we know when we’ve evolved enough that we I guess it would be through. There’s  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: no such thing as evolving enough. You can’t, you can’t score too many touchdowns in this game. There’s no such thing as evolving enough. We yearned, when I say we, I mean the soul of each of us yearns to evolve forever with no limit in sight. So there’s no such thing that you don’t wake up on, you know, on Thursday morning at 1015 and say, Oh, I’ve evolved enough. It’s kind of like asking, this is not a joke. I’m being serious here. It’s like, can you love enough, or do you always want to make sure that you have the capacity to love even more, and then even more than that, and then even more than that. So I never want to love enough. Oh, I never said that before. You just maybe say something I’ve never said before, just an accomplice. We’re done true. I never want to love enough as much as I love the people I love. I want to love them even more tomorrow. I never want to love enough. Put that folks on your bathroom mirror, get a magic marker, get a black fell tip pen, and put that on your bathroom mirror so you see it every morning. I never want to love where I  
 
Jim Fortin: was going with that. And I think you’ve already answered already answered is, when do we get out of the chaos in your thought process? Meaning, when do we finally start working together as a species? Well, we start  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: working together as a species when we start thinking together as a species and choosing together to want the same. Things in life when enough of us never want to love enough. But it’s not just one or two of us or five or six of us. So when we share fundamental ideas about who we are and why we’re here, who are we, what is what is this here? Am I really this body, or am I this mind? Or am I some combination of this body and this mind? Or is or is it possible that I’m more than this? Is it possible that I’m, oh, see, I’m a spiritual entity, having a body and a mind, this is not who I am. Now, when enough of us, when, when we reach critical mass, in the number of people who understand who we are and why we’re here, by here, I mean in the physical realm, yeah, what are we doing? What are we doing in the physical realm? When we reach critical mass, and the number of people who agree on those two questions, who am I and why am I here, then the first domino will fall, and the rest of the dominoes will follow. Now what’s interesting about that Jim, sociologists tell us that critical mass is not like 51% it’s not like one person more than half. Sociologists tell us that critical mass is actually something between five and 7% of the whole number. That’s what my brother  
 
Jim Fortin: in law told me, but when he told me, when 5% it’s critical mass, when they wake up enough, they’re aware enough, that’s when it will pull the entire species to a higher level of evolution and consciousness. That’s the world I live in is we’re in the midst of this right now. It ain’t coming. We’re in it at this point right now.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: Not only are we in it at this point right now, Jim, that’s why you came here. Neil,  
 
Jim Fortin: that’s exactly what I tell people, my students that I work with, is, why now? Why did we incarnate now? Because we can look around and my ego goes, this isn’t the beautiful it is, but look at the chaos in the world. Why am I here now? So no matter my frustration with that or whatever, I have to embrace it, because I chose to be here now at this time, as did anyone listening to this and watching us, they all chose to be here now.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I couldn’t agree with you more. I got that answer from God herself when he said to me, because I said, you know, will I ask the same question? Why am I here now? And God answered, I sent you where you were most needed when you were most needed. That’s why you’re there. I could have sent you to the planet Zeon, where they got it all figured out, but there made no point to it. Yeah, you went to where you wanted to go in order to be of the greatest service, so that your soul could self realize that is so that you could experience who you really are 100% I’m  
 
Jim Fortin: with you in my programs. I do a 13 week program, and one of the weeks is on choice. And I work from Life is not a choice. Life is choice. You made a choice to incarnate, and everything in your life is a reflection of choice. And people often, they don’t get the value often that I want in that week compared to the week maybe on responsibility or personal integrity, or vision, or whatever it might be. The question is, I think you’ve written like 33 books now, 41  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: but who’s counting? Nobody? That wasn’t a joke. It actually is 4141 God talk was my 41st book. That’s amazing. The question  
 
Jim Fortin: I have, of those 41 books, is there one that you know? It’s like, wow, if people would really get what’s in this book? Yes, everything would change, I believe. So what? What book would that be? It’s called what God wants, and chapter 13 is devoted entirely my answer to the question, what God wants. So it’s a powerful, powerful book. Made a note  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: of that. I’m going to read it myself. But I was like, because I see that all the time in my work, when I know something and it will, it will make a difference, and people are kind of like, LA, Dee, da, okay. I’m like, no, look over here. Look at this. And they don’t, and that’s okay. That’s their lesson in learning, and it’s fine. But I wondered that about you. There’s another book that I would recommend after what God wants, which you read in my number two book is called the God solution. Yep, and I send the god solution. I send an author’s manuscript of God’s solution. It’s a published hard COVID book, but I send the author’s manuscript from my computer to the computer of anyone who asks for it. No no cost, no fee, no charge of any kind. So if anybody would like a copy of the guy solution, just send me an email and I’ll send it back to you in the next email.  
 
Jim Fortin: Perfect. We’ll get all your information when we’re done here. But. Next question, Gary and I, Gary zukov and I were talking about the dancing Wu li masters, and he said that when he was writing the dancing Wu li masters, which was a best selling book, he threw in the trash, then something pulled him back to it, and he’s like, No, I’ve got to finish this. I’ve got to work on it. And it became a best a national bestseller. Have you ever had that happen with any of your work where you’re like, No, this is it doesn’t feel right. It’s not very good, but you kept going back to it, and then it turned into  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: something amazing. Honestly, Jim, no, because I don’t I’ve never found myself in a position of judging what I’m writing because I’m not trying to write a good book. I’ve never tried to write a good book. For instance, my conversations with God books were not written as a book. They were simply private experiences that I was having that I never, ever, ever imagined anyone would read my notes from my conversations with God. So I wasn’t trying to write a book, but I kept my notes on my conversations with God. I simply send those notes to a publisher, because God told me to I was told in conversations with God Neil, he will make of this one day a book, and it will be accessed by many people. And I thought to myself, no, that’s not going to happen. I mean, I could self publish it. Anybody can self publish, but no legitimate publisher. I mean, Simon and Schuster, you know, Eddie, who made it not going to publish a book, because the guy says he’s talking to God, and God is aunt. Nobody’s going to publish that. But I thought, You know what? I just got it. That’s a great way to figure out, am I making this all up? Is this all my imagination? Am I really having a conversation with God? Because if God said to me, this book will be accessed by many people. We’ll see about that. So you know what? I sent my handwritten notes. I Xeroxed copies of it to several publishers just to see what would happen. Honestly, Jim, I was daring, god, okay. He said it would be a book. He said it would be accessed by many people show me. And I got a call about six weeks later from a publishing company and said, Hey, this is fascinating stuff. We want to put this out. I said, Are you kidding me? You want to put out a book, but I sent you handwritten notes that I think is a conversation with God. He said, Yeah, it’s a great piece of fiction, and people are going to love it. I said, just a second, wait a minute. You cannot put that book out as a piece of fiction. And the guy on the other end of the phone said, Are you trying to tell me? You think this actually happened to you? We thought it was a fantasy, a book of fantasy. I said, No, these are my actual notes from my personal experience of a conversation with God. He said, Well, okay, we’ll put it on as a non fiction book, but it’s not going to get 500 readers. You’re not going to find 500 readers, because people are going to reject the idea that you really some guy in Oregon thinks he’s talking to God. And you know what? You know what? Jim, he was right. His prediction was absolutely on the money, but he didn’t find 500 readers. It found 15 million in 37 languages. Not bragging, just saying, I’ve heard of national bestsellers, this book has sold in 37 languages around the world, 15 million copies. So what I learned from that is when God says something to me, Neil, listen very carefully.  
 
Jim Fortin: I had read something about you, and thank you for that, where you had said that your work wasn’t channeled, and I work from the place that everything comes from source, everything we have to be the right frequency to be able to access what it is we want to access. Where do you think it came from? I mean, I know you call it God, but I know you said your words, I read and you could change that, that you didn’t channel it. Do you feel like you were tapping into source, did you know you were tapping into source, or you just sat down and started writing?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: The reason that I say that I haven’t been channeling that, and I hope I carefully described it, is because people use the word channel or channeling in a particular way. Yeah, most people, when they say chandling, they think of somebody who’s been taken over, who’s being this has been taken over. They set aside Neil’s personality for an hour or two, or whatever, 10 minutes, and then that personality comes through. Then I say, No, no, no, no. That’s not what happened to me. He had this. No, no, God did not set my personal. Now on your side and step into my body and start speaking through me. That’s not what happened. So we won’t call it channeling. Then my publisher said, what would you call it? I said, Well, let’s see, were Matthew Mark, Luke and John channeling, or were they simply inspired writing? I said, I would have called inspired writing. I was inspired. I asked a question, I got an answer. I asked a question, I got an answer. I had some arguments with God, not debating, kind of arguments, but just, you know, some where I say, Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What are you trying to say? For instance, when God said to me, Neil, there’s no such thing as right and wrong. I stepped back immediately, whoa, what do you no such thing as right and wrong. Yeah, what are you? What are you telling me? But I came to clarity about many, many, many questions like that. So God said to me as well, there’s no such thing. I did not issue 10 commandments to anybody. I said, Well, where did the 10 Commandments come from? And she said, You guys made it all up. Who would I command and who would I punish if the command wasn’t kept with the right hand, slap the left, because Neil, we are all one. There’s no separation. When  
 
Jim Fortin: I read that, I had that question. I wanted to ask you, where did it come from? Because I recognized, I didn’t think you channeled in that word, but I said it was divinely inspired, and I knew that you’ve much voice of words were a medium for that content you got out of the way. It inspired you, and it came through you, perfectly  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: described. That’s exactly how I would describe it, as I would say to anybody, no, I’m not a channel. I did not channel God. But was I inspired by God? Absolutely.  
 
Jim Fortin: On that note, we have free will. I know you talk about free will and choice. We have free will. Was there ever a time where you’re like, No, I’m not going to write this. I don’t I don’t want to do this. What are you talking about? I don’t know anything about this. I don’t want to do it. No, you just felt compelled to do it. No,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I never felt compelled in the way you’re using the word. I felt invited, okay, and it was simply an invitation that I could not decline. It’s like being invited to the greatest party you could ever imagine being invited to. Who says, No, I felt invited, but never compelled. Love that it’s like when I go into the bedroom and my wife is lying there on the mattress. I don’t feel compelled, but I do feel invited. It’s a whole different feeling. It’s a whole different feeling. I wasn’t even joking about that. I was trying to describe how it feels to be invited, but not compelled.  
 
Jim Fortin: I can relate to that with my partner of 22 years, or just something. It’s invisible. It’s just unbreakable. There’s just something there. And I mean, I know from a deeper spiritual level, first time I saw my partner, I’m like, That’s my partner. I just knew it the second I saw so I can relate to you and your your partner of 17 years, because I know that feeling of finally connecting with your twin flame. There’s nothing like it in my experience, couple of simple questions. My favorite quote is,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I’m sorry, and a half and a half, what? 10 and a half my shoe size? You said a couple simple questions. You’re going to say, What is your shoe size? You know, what’s your favorite color? No, oh, oh, you said a couple of couple of simple questions. Okay,  
 
Jim Fortin: people ask me questions like that. I was like, Why? Why are you asking what? Anyway, my favorite quote is by a guy named a Leo FEIS Levi. He was the coldest back in the 1880s and he said, Fear is the idleness of will. So that’s the quote that I love. Is there something that you love, a particular quote, or one or two quotes that inspire you?  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: My favorite quote came from God herself. I was asked on the Today Show. Matt Lauer was interviewing me on the Today Show, and he was kind of sardonic throughout the entire interview. He was he was respectful, but a little bit sardonic in his tone. And then he said to me, Well, Neil, since you claimed you’ve talked to God, what is God’s most important message to the world? Oh, and he said, it would be helpful if you put it into one paragraph, because we have only 30 seconds left. And I thought to myself, you stink. You would wait until we have 30 seconds left to ask you the most important question of all time, just to make me look, you know, inept or incomplete or bad, but then I had the answer. I said, you know, Matt, I don’t need 30 seconds. I can give you the answer in five words. I. Hey, Matt, Laura, turned to the camera and he said, Alright, ladies and gentlemen, from the man who claims to be talking to God, God’s most important message to the world in five words. Neil, little bit of sardonic tone there. Yeah. So I turned to the camera and I said, God’s most important message to the world in five words, you’ve got me all wrong. You got me all wrong. Matt didn’t know where to go with that. He thought I was going to say something like love everybody, or try to be kind, whatever he thought I was in some kind of aphorism. And he didn’t know where to go with that response. He said, What am I supposed to do with that? I said. I said, Matt, if I’m correct, if my my answer is accurate, that we’ve got God all wrong, the conversation has just begun. We then needs to start asking. Then, what is not inaccurate about God? What is the accurate truth about God? We have to ask ourselves a profound question, is it possible? Just possible that there’s something we don’t fully understand here, about God, about life and about ourselves, the understanding of which would change everything? And that’s the question I’ve gone around the world asking people. Have been asking my audiences all over the planet. That reminds me,  
 
Jim Fortin: do you know the human kindness foundation? I believe they’re out in New York, and the guy who founded it wrote a passage, a doctrine, and it was along the lines of what you just said, and it was basically God talking to humanity, God, saying all of you guys down there, you got it wrong, adult, I don’t need you taking sides from me. I don’t need you fighting for me. I’m not this person’s god. I’m not that person’s god. I’m the whole enchilada. I am the whole thing to all of you, and I love all of you, and I’m tired of your bickering. I’m tired of this, I’m tired of that. But don’t put your labels on me. When you said that, that’s what I thought about, right? There is we humans, humanity. We have it wrong, and that we define God for the perceptions of the human identity and a very limited experience, and yet we understand nothing. And  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: even in the one thing you just said was not accurate, when God said, I’m tired of all the bickering, I’m tired of all the arguing, I’m tired of all the taking sides. God doesn’t get tired of anything. God would never say, I’m tired of this. I’m tired of that. What God would say is, exercise your free choice. Allow yourself to be who it is you feel that you honestly are, and through that process, you will evolve. I’m tired of nothing. I never get tired of you. No matter what you do. I never get tired of you, nor will I ever judge, condemn or punish you for anything. Oh, and by the way, life is not a school. You’re not here to learn anything. When I was told that, by the way, God told me that Neil, life is not a school. I said, Wait a minute. Every great teacher in the world says life is a school. And God said, Neil, is there a tree outside your window? I said, yeah, there actually is a beautiful, huge oak tree out there, about 35 feet tall, beautiful tree with a beautiful canopy. God said, What has the tree learned since it was a seedling? Don’t pick it in your fingernail. I said, well, doesn’t learn anything. It’s just kind of grown into itself, to which God replied, Are you telling me that I put everything the tree needed to know to become that beautiful specimen outside your window, that I embedded all the information that it needed in that seed when it was no bigger than your fingernail? I said, Well, yeah, I guess you could put it that way, to which God said, and if I so loved the tree, would I not all the more love you do? You really think I sent you down there without having everything you needed inside of you. You didn’t go down there to learn anything. Neil, simply remember that is become a member once again. Remember become a member once again of the body of God. Remember who you really are, and then demonstrate that you have nothing to learn. You have only to recall college forward again,  
 
Jim Fortin: the lesson my brother in law, the shaman, says the same thing he’s always about, remember who you are, remember where you came from, and when you start remembering, that’s when things will start. It opening up for you even more and  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: remembering is that a process of learning. It’s a process of bringing calling forth what you already know.  
 
Jim Fortin: I This is not my brother in law’s words, who’s been my teacher. They’re mine, but it’s the most powerful thing I think he ever said to me, and he said a lot of things over the years, and it’s so challenging for a lot of us just be, just be in the moment we’re on the planet to be, and then everything else comes from that.  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: That’s why we’re called human beings and not human doings.  
 
Jim Fortin: Exactly. Neil, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I, I’m loving the fact I didn’t know you’d have a sense of humor, so I, came all like formal to our conversation, but I could sit and laugh and joke with you forever, so I really appreciate it. And where would you like to send people? I’ve got a pretty sizable tribe and quite a few listeners. Where would you like them to go to find more  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: if they choose to. I had no particular desire with regard to that, nor do I have a need or a want. But if they feel that they would like to stay connected or learn more about all of this, they can simply go to CWG, connect.com, CWG, of course, standing for Conversations with God. So CWG, connect.com, they’ll find me there. I have a column there called Ask Neil that I visit three times a day, and I respond to any question that anyone would ever have. So I’m happy to talk to anybody in that in that place, and we’ll drop  
 
Jim Fortin: that in the show notes. And I do not want to put you on the spot. I do not want to be Matt Lauer, do you actually read some of those that come through? Oh,  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: I read all of them. I don’t let anybody read my email. I read my own my own email, and I read every single letter and every single note that’s ever been sent to me. I refuse to put anybody between me and those who have read the material. So I read every single email that I get, yep, and I read every single post that’s posted on my website, and I read every single post on my Facebook page, which has around 850,000 followers currently, but I read everything myself. That’s what I do. You know what? I refuse to be separated from people who have found some value or some benefit in the conversations  
 
Jim Fortin: of material. I do have a comment here. I have found in my own work that when I am one to one with people, meaning connecting, then the connection is much more profound and deeper and longer lasting. But if I let someone on my team come between us, they don’t have my frequency, they don’t have my energy, and it just doesn’t connect in the same way if there’s some kind of separation between me and people that I’ve reached. So thank you for saying that, because that’s extremely helpful to me, and I appreciate it. So we’ll send people to your site and thank you. Thank you. Thank you again for your time today, Neil, I really appreciate it. I should  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: close by saying to your viewers and to those who are watching, I’ll be a regular guest on Jim’s program. I’ll be here at least once and once a week, or twice a week. So look for me to return very often, because I’m taking over his show.  
 
Jim Fortin: I didn’t know that yet, but I would be more than glad to have you back as many times, and actually be careful, because that’s what Gary. Gary Z did. Gary’s like, we need to make a series. We need to do more. Once I started opening up to him, he’s like, we’re going to talk. And he’s like, we just need to do an entire series so we’ll see where it goes. And Neil, thank you again. From the heart, I really appreciate you and the work that you do and the work that comes through to  
 
Neale Donald Walsch: you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it very much. Absolutely. You.