The Jim Fortin Podcast

EPISODE 200: “Up Close And Personal With Jim”

January 5, 2022

This week I’m celebrating my 200th episode of the podcast and we’re doing something we’ve never done before.

I’m being interviewed by my good friend, Brandon Lucero, who is more like a brother to me than a friend. That being said, you’ll notice right off that the tone of this episode is completely different than my other episodes.

This episode is also very different because I’m getting real personal about a lot of things, including some of the questions that you, the listener, asked recently when I asked for you to submit your questions.

Here’s just a few things that we discuss:

I hope you enjoy this special episode where I’m pulling back the curtain on many, many personal things.

And thank you for listening and making this 200th episode possible! When I started this podcast, I had no idea we’d have so many downloads and listeners. We can’t do in life what we want without the assistance of others. And when it comes to the podcast, we’ve had over 2 million downloads and because of you, the listener, I can do what I love to do and do my dharma, my spiritual service. Thank you for listening, and sharing, and downloading the podcast!

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Want even more support? My Signature Transformational Coaching Program is designed to get you unstuck and reprogram the subconscious mind so you can reach a new level in life and free yourself from your thoughts. This is an exclusive experience for those serious about transforming their life, and it’s only offered twice a year. Get on the waitlist here to be the first notified when the doors open.

Full Episode Transcript

Episode 200

You're listening to the Transform your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This episode is actually a very personal episode. It is the 200th episode of the podcast. So what we did, we did this episode is one of my closest friends interviewed me. And ask questions about my personal life, different things that you guys have been wondering about or writing in about. And he applied some of it back to some of the questions you guys have been asking about Spirituality and working with a Shamanism. And I share with him and he knows my perspective. I've shared with him. You know my perspective on my path and we get very personal about it and I share it with you too, in this episode. So hopefully for some of you or all of you, I don't know, you'll find value here. And in some way you can apply what I share in this episode. To some aspect of your life. Next is thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of you each and every one of you. Thank you for listening and for sharing the podcast. And I'd love to have you around for another 200 episodes. Okay. Enjoy the episode.


You're listening to the Transform your Life from the Inside Out podcast. This episode is actually a very personal episode. It is the 200th episode of the podcast. So what we did, we did this episode is one of my closest friends interviewed me. And ask questions about my personal life, different things that you guys have been wondering about or writing in about. And he applied some of it back to some of the questions you guys have been asking about Spirituality and working with a Shamanism. And I share with him and he knows my perspective. I've shared with him. You know my perspective on my path and we get very personal about it and I share it with you too, in this episode. So hopefully for some of you or all of you, I don't know, you'll find value here. And in some way you can apply what I share in this episode. To some aspect of your life. Next is thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of you each and every one of you. Thank you for listening and for sharing the podcast. And I'd love to have you around for another 200 episodes. Okay. Enjoy the episode.
Hi, I'm Jim Fortin, and you're about to start Transforming your Life from the Inside Out with this podcast, I'm widely considered the leader in Subconscious Transformation and I've coached Super Achievers all around the world for over 25 years here, you're going to find no rah rah motivation and no hype because this podcast is a combination of Brain Science, Transformational Psychology. and Ancient Wisdom all rolled into one to take your life to levels you've never thought possible if you're wanting a lot more in life to feel better, to heal, to have peace of mind, to feel powerful and alive and to bring more abundance and prosperity into your life then this podcast is for you because you're going to start learning how to Master your Mind and Evolve your Consciousness. And when you do that, anything you want then becomes possible for you I'm glad you're here.

Up Close And Personal With Jim

Brandon Lucero: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Transform your Life from the Inside Out podcast. As you can probably tell, I am not Jim Fortin, my name thank God exactly.,my name is Brandon Lucero and I am a dear friend of Jim Fortin. At least that's what he tells me.And I got an email or text a month or so ago from his team. And they said that he has his, 200 episode coming up and they wanted to do something different. They wanted to do something a little unique, and they asked me to interview Jim for today's podcast episode to try and show a side of him. That you probably haven't seen or that a lot of his audience hasn't seen and that's what we're here to do. So Jim, welcome to your own podcast. Glad you're here.

Jim Fortin: Thank you for inviting me to my own podcast. Well, the team said a while back, they're like, what can we do that is different. And we want people to see a side of Jim from apparently what I hear. I have a sense of humor and you could too that's why we're really good friends. And they're like, nobody gets to see that on the podcast. And someone said, Hey, if you want to see Jim in his real element, then have Brandon who you're, what's that word? You use? Dear friend. You are a friend of mine, right? Yeah.

Brandon Lucero: I mean, you can, you can say whatever you want to say.

Jim Fortin: Okay.

Brandon Lucero: Well, you can say that I'm your best friend in front of your whole audience. You could say that I'm your only friends. Like it's true,

Jim Fortin: But you're one of my, for sure my closest friends. And, you know, you know what happens when we get together some other, we have to keep this relatively clean this podcast because when you and I get together with James Wedmore, it's all bets are off.

Brandon Lucero: So it's like, we're we're college kids again.

Jim Fortin: Exactly. Like we're brothers growing up. I tell people we're brothers that literally had tripled like bunk beds in the same room. We all grew up in the same room together. So well,

Brandon Lucero: Can we, can we start there? Let's start with the brother. Like why, why does it feel like we're brothers like to you? What is it about our relationship that makes it feel like brothers?

Jim Fortin: Because we can ask each other for money?

Brandon Lucero: Well, there's a lot of people that brothers that can't do that

Jim Fortin: No. I'm kidding guys listening. We, um, for everyone listening, the first time I saw Brandon was probably about, well, I don't know, Brandon eight, nine years ago.

Brandon Lucero: Yep.

Jim Fortin: And I saw an ad on and for some reason, I'm like, I can help that guy, which I don't do. I don't reach out to people. And yeah, I don't even really, you know, use a lot of social media, but I said, I can help that guy. And we connected and we started talking and we've found just more and more commonality. And we went on vacation together year later. And your son was a year old, you know, we went to Boulder, Colorado, but I've always felt, and you know, I tell you this, I always feel at this point in our life being friends for so long and on the path that we're on, I feel like you and I were in the same womb at one time in some life. I mean, we just connect and you know, when we're together, we can have a good time and we do 90% of the time. But when we connect, we just genuinely and deeply connect with each other and James as well. So its sense, you know, you have sense as well. Uh, sometimes a lack of common sense. No guys, I'm kidding. We play a lot. It'll come back to my way.

Brandon Lucero: It'll be, it'll be like this throughout the whole episode.

Jim Fortin: It'll come back to this, trust me. But it was just like, there's something about this person and now we're on the same spiritual path, but I just knew that you're someone because the first year that I worked with you, you were kind of new in business brand new. And my, one of my goals was I have to help this guy make a hundred thousand dollars his very first year. And to me, that's how we got started.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. And I remember that email and I remember my wife was like, wait a minute. So there's a random guy on the internet that says he can help you, who doesn't want anything in return. And he wants to just come in and help for nothing. Like he doesn't want anything, like, yeah. She's like, it sounds weird. And then like a week or two later, you're like, Hey, can you pick me up from the airport? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, sure. So my wife, my newborn son and I drove the Pasadena to pick you up from the airport, hang out with you, have lunch. And she's like, we're we have like our baby with us. There's a random guy. We met on the internet. That's here to help us. Are you sure this is fine. And I was like, yeah, I think so. And it was you,

Jim Fortin: I'm not going to tell too much of this story, but we're the kind of friends you could call me last week and ask for some assistance on something you're doing life ,that's kind of rather significant. And the funniest part of the story was, is you can ask me anything and you asked me for assistance. And when you did, I pulled into my driveway and my phone dropped you, you got cut off. So everyone listening to second, he asked for like, let's just say a big favor. So you're kind of like, is a person gonna say yes or no? And my phone got cut off and he's like, uh, are you there? Are you there? Like that guy hung up on me.

Brandon Lucero: Well, for those that don't know, I I'm someone who, part of the reason why it took me so long to see success, even with Jim's mentorship, um, earlier on is because I don't like to ask for help, like very stubborn. Don't like to ask for help. So even asking for Jim's help, even now, it was hard. It was, it was, you know, it was I had to put my ego aside and my vulnerability aside and all that stuff. And I asked him, and then the phone just goes quiet. And like, Jim, what do you think. And I was like, Jim, it's just quite, I looked down, that's like that mother effer hung up on me what a jerk and his phone just went dead. But anyways, I want to, I want to bring it back to something that you said is that you followed your, your sense.

Jim Fortin: Right.

Brandon Lucero: And I kind of know your story and I want to go back to the beginning of your story, but I was

Jim Fortin: Looking at a lot of, you do know the story, all of it but go ahead.

Brandon Lucero: Okay. But, well, there's specifics about the story that I want to ask, but in order to get to the very beginning, I want to ask about sense because a lot of the listeners submitted questions and a lot of them were asking a lot of money related questions, business related questions. They're living the BE DO HAVE model, but they find it really hard to sometimes to do that. And I, as long as I've known you, you've always trusted your sense. First of all, why is it that you always trust your sense? How do you trust your, like,how did you develop it? And then really like when it makes no logical sense to follow this feeling that you have, how do you do it? Like, is it as simple as just putting everything aside, living in no fear, like what's, what is your process look like for following your sense?

Jim Fortin: I think my process is aligned with yours. I think we did the same thing and I never recognize that till now is one of the things several, when listening, Brandon used to call me in the early days, he would say, Hey, I'm going to put out this landing page or whatever. Can you look at it? And I'd be like, yeah, I'm really busy right now. And I would say, I'll get to it tonight. And that night I'd like, Hey, let me look at the page now. And it's like, oh, I already published that that's done hours ago. And I think the reason both of us are to answer your question in the roundabout way. You see it all the time. Yeah. People know, they want to go out and create something, but they don't do what you were doing when we started working together. And me for years is just go do it, take action on to do something. And I know this interview is about me, but guys, I have so much admiration for Brandon. The first webinar that he did. And by the way, I called him and I'm just like, you're rubbing your, webinar's a train wreck. I can help you with that.

Brandon Lucero: Literally. That's what he said. It was like, Hey, you know your stuff, but your webinar sucks.

Jim Fortin: But the thing was this, everyone listening, this is what I really admire is his first webinar. He typed it out and read it word for word and read the webinar because he was so nervous about doing it, but he did it. So to go back to your question about sense and to take out a part very quickly is I just know what I want to do. And then when I know what I want to do and all of us know what we want to do, we just were afraid to, most of us are afraid to do it.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: So then when I know what I want to do. The first place I go is how can I make this happen? So I don't know that it's so much about sense. It's about what do I want and what do I have to do, or who do I have to be? Or what ways do I have to be to make it happen?

Brandon Lucero: Well, let me, let me ask in the context of how we got here, which is sure. First seeing me, like you, you just knew you sensed. I think a lot of people would just start to doubt, like, this is weird. I'm going to come off as creepy. I'm going to push him away or whatever, but there is something that told you to do it anyways. Would you have like you

Jim Fortin: What do you mean when I reached out,

Brandon Lucero: Right? Yeah.

Jim Fortin: Okay.

Brandon Lucero: Cause I mean, as long as I've known you, that's kind of how you operate. It is just like, I know this is what I'm supposed to do. So I just go and do it and there doesn't seem to be any worry or fear of repercussions or you know, like even me going, like, who are you? You freak,

Jim Fortin: You cock, you nut job.

Brandon Lucero: Right. So how do you, I mean, how did you get to that place? So imagine as a little kid, you're just like everyone else, you go through different traumas and experiences and things that could lead certain types of stories and interpretations, and you could have ingrained fears and stuff. How did like, where, what was the turning point for you to just be able to like, listen to the sense and just get rid of all of those quote unquote stories that you may have had since child?

Jim Fortin: No, that's a really good question. And for me, you know, me, I mean, you and I are not afraid to take chances and go do things. And unless some of us from the call, one of the two of us jumping off a 90 foot cliff and bragging it back, you know, I mean, we're not afraid to do things and I've never been afraid to just go out there and just do it. And when I reached out to you, you could have said one of two things, you can be. What kind of cock are you what the, you know, what the hell do you want? You know, Erf, you know, or you could have, maybe this is the person who really wants to help me. And I get that because in this world, a lot of people are not used to other people saying, Hey, let me just help you. I don't want anything. And I never thought about this till now. Maybe it's because I've had so much help in life from people that I'm like, wow, I've had, yeah, I'm getting emotional about I've had so many people help me and step up and do things for me. That's where I live from is what can I do to help more people, whoever they are, no matter what it is.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: That's where you could tell me. No. And you could have said, get out of here and block me and everything else. And that would have been the end of it. But look where we are nine years later, later. I mean, I think we're dear friends.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. Quote unquote, dear friends. Um, what do you, what were some of those people in moments where you've had someone come in and help you in from the past that you just talked about.

Jim Fortin: You know, it's really stupid. But a simple one is when I was working with the guy, I don't want to mention his name. He may be listening to the podcast, but he was a con man, back when I was in my twenties and I lost everything, I had no money. I was near homeless and I started

Brandon Lucero: Before like after He Con you?,

Jim Fortin: Yeah,He Con me and a lot of people, he went to prison for three, three times now. And I knew he was, I didn't know initially, but I recognized, Hey, this guy's kind of bad news, which is why I moved out of Texas to get away from him. But I was working with him and he was kind of a well-known name in Texas and Sports. And I stopped working with him. And I remember one time I was waiting tables, walking to work because I lost my car and I didn't have a car. And I remember one of the first nights waiting tables. This guy gave me a really big tip. And I said, so you've waited tables before and he goes, no, I've never done that. But I have been new at things before and people helped me. And then that moment that dawned on me and you, I mean, you know me now I'll do it pretty much anything, something I hadn't told you yet, you know, the, the charity water campaign we did.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: We closed the campaign last night at $110,000 in contribution. I know I even talked to a representative of the company today. They're like, we want to talk to you because what did you do? You have a fast going campaign, but I've always been from, and you know, why now, Don Xavier, what can I do to help other people. Without regard to what I'm going to get back forward or any of that, what can I do to help? And I never thought about it till now, but that's kind of, but even even started back in high school, I used to watch my mom. We didn't have a lot of money. I remember I remember one Christmas, she was knitting or something, some dolls. And I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like, I'm making some dolls for kids that don't have any like little girls that don't have any toys. I'm like, we're broke. We don't have any money. But even though we didn't have any money, she was still doing things to help people. So I've always just had that ingrained in me.

Brandon Lucero: I love, yeah, that makes sense. I'm going back to the con man. Uh, I don't know if I understood the story was the person who gave you the tip? Was that the con person, or they two separate things?

Jim Fortin: No the con man, I'd stopped working with. And I was like I said, near homeless, living on a fraternity brothers couch, walking to work or riding the bus. Because I had no car, no money. I went into a place you probably heard of them called Dave and Buster's or National now had like two locations, you know, many years ago. And I filled out the application and it asks, you know, what's your waiting table experience. I lied, I made it all up. And then when I started working there, like, why don't you know, this? Why don't you know that? How come? I don't know. You know I even put down on the application that the restaurant I had worked in prior had already closed down. So they couldn't call to get a reference at the restaurant prior. Right. But I know I was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel at that point, but it was just some patron in the restaurant. When you wait tables, people ask you questions. When you're a kid now you in college and all that stuff. I just said, no, I'm just waiting tables. It was my first job. And that's when the guy knew that I was new and that's when he did whatever he did. I never remembered that story till our call right now.

Brandon Lucero: Oh, interesting.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Brandon Lucero: Well how did, so I'm going to bring it back to the whole topic back to sense and the con man, and when you got con, because you live pretty much the way I, the way I see it from outside perspective is that you pretty much live your entire life based off of sense. Um, for the most part, I think a lot more than other people do, but you, I believe right after college had started making money pretty successful. And then you did get wrapped up into some kind of con schemes lost at all. So my question comes back this two parts. First of all, what happened? And how did that happen? And number two is your, has your sense been something that's developed over time because you didn't see or feel that coming, obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have done it, I'm assuming, correct.

Jim Fortin: No, I would have done it. I'm dishonest. I worked with dishonest people. I that's one of the things I like best about you is your level of integrity. You're 100% integral. And that's a really good question because I never thought of that answer until now. That's why, I'm glad we picked you to do this because I never thought of the answer to that question.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: I've always had good sense about who I can trust. Who's all these kind of things, but this person was very well known in the state of Texas and Texas sports, which is a big deal in Texas as a three time, all American college football player at the University of Texas, and then that capacity, he had a lot of famous friends, a lot of famous people that he was around. I mean, we used to go to Willie Nelson to play golf at Willie Nelson's golf course and stuff like that. So I grew up in a small Texas farming town. And then when I met him, I was exposed to a whole nother world, hanging out with people or being around people. Like, I know you don't know, these names were like Earl Campbell, Heisman trophy winner, and his brothers and people like that. And candidly, what happened was, is I was in my early twenties, I got mesmerized by that world of things and money. And I threw my perception's out the window why because I was chasing money, growing up without money. I wanted to be successful. I wanted, you know, that's a time of my life, where I wanted to prove things and show people what I can do and be successful and make it and all that kind of stuff in the world. So I got wrapped up in a web of all ego, all 3d, all that kind of stuff. And then I compromised my values to invest in things. I never took money from anyone or any of that, but I did things that I wouldn't have done in terms of, where I put money in different things and getting off my path to chase money, which ended up, I never thought about this. I literally got off my path, which was even a spiritual path back then got onto a path of let me chase money and let me be rich. And it all imploded and collapsed on me.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've experienced that too. It was like, cause we saw success pretty quickly and then it kind of got to my head a little bit and then as soon as it did it just like things fell apart, you know, launch a stop happening to the level we needed them to or wanted them to and all sorts of stuff. Great. Amazing learning lessons. Um, when, when you went through that, were you working with Don Xavier at that point?

Jim Fortin: No, I didn't meet Don Xavier till I was 32 or 33 and I was 22 or 23 then.

Brandon Lucero: Okay.

Jim Fortin: But then what I did. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Brandon Lucero: I want to talk about when you met Don Xavier, but the question before then is about money and spirituality, because I think a lot of people, it's probably their own like money issues that they have, but they view money as like bad and spirituality is good and they don't, they can't co-exist. And even your story, like if someone had that thought probably reinforces the beliefs they have around money hearing that story. But I want to address, I don't want to leave the story with that lesson. So I want to make sure that we kind of like put a nice little bow tie on it and just talk about how how do you look at money and spirituality coexisting together?

Jim Fortin: That's interesting. And that, that, that's a loaded question, but here's the thing, is spirituality, is connection with the divine spirit, divine is infinite. Divine is abundant. I mean, you know, the universe, doesn't say, you know what, in California, all of you guys can have money, but in Texas, you can't

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: Or in one country or one planet or one go further, you know, it's just, I look at it as I'm not sure that I look at it as money. I look at it as abundance and energy and everything's energy. And where I work from is the more that I can expand, because I used to chase money for me, which you've seen this 90% of people listening, still do it. Even if they think they don't is the first thing they do. is try to have money to take care of their own life. And then they say, once my life is taken care of, I'll take care of everyone else, but I gotta take care of me first. I lived that way for decades and decades. When I recognized as I do now that if I take care of other people and I do it with an open heart and a good and genuine way, that's going to come back to me. So I don't know how to answer that question. Other than I think to have money, if you use it for service and a tool is a very spiritual thing, you use it to build people and communities and the water project we just did and different things. I think that's a good thing. If you use it to buy a Jaguar F type,

Brandon Lucero: I'm going to do that,

Jim Fortin: You own the Jaguar F type and I own a Porsche, Hey guys, before we started this, chatting today. He's wearing a sweatshirt, one of our good friends, James Wedmore, and he made some other comments about it, but he's like, well, I can change shirts if you want, if we're going to do video. And I've seen the inside of your closet that he and I and James, we buy our clothes like at Target. I mean, it's, he's got two colors of clothes. He's got gray and black. That's all you've got in your closet.

Brandon Lucero: I got blue.

Jim Fortin: You got to always go, whoa, he's, he's getting, he's got some blue now, but you know, the three of us we don't chase money. And I think we all learned in our own ways, but we don't chase money. We all focus on and it's extremely prevalent. And when you really look at it with us, what can I do to make the world a better place? And even things that you're doing right now, you know, you're doing it. Not because of how much money you can make, but this really sets you on fire. It's a passion of yours. Yeah. So that's, that's how to become rich, but then you take the money and then you share it. You put it back out in the world to create more of a flow for yourself and more of a flow for other people.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. So if I'm understanding correctly, it's just the under its intention. It's everything comes down to intention. What's the intention of the money. Is it to like fulfill the ego, have the nicer house, the bigger house, keeping up with the Joneses, that type of thing versus I'm using this as a tool, but it doesn't mean you can't have a nice house and you can't have a nice car. It's the intention behind it. If I'm understanding,

Jim Fortin: Yeah, of course you are. And you know, the answers to this, but you're asking them to get ways. Is it doesn't define it. Doesn't make you money. I mean, I've seen some of the biggest, I've seen some very wealthy people that are the biggest assholes in the world. And I've seen people that have nothing there are the most humble people in the world, right? Money doesn't make you a better or worse person. It's simply a tool. What matters is how you use the money and you know, me, I and my friends, we choose to use it to build other people.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: I mean, you know, we're all, uh, I can't speak for all of us but we can, we're all very adamant about that is it's great to have the nice car and a home is and all that, but that's not the deal and you do it because you've got kids and you know, a better life for your kids and you have a wife who likes to shop. So that's why you're looking at, you know, living in certain places.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: But we do it because of the impact we can make in the world.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. Yeah. A 100% I remember.when I was, when I was just a kid, I remember talking to my aunt who was, it's just been kind of spiritually based all of the honor, like super into yoga. And, you know, as a kid, I was just always obsessed with money. I was just like, oh, I want to be a millionaire and have all these things. And dah, dah, dah, dah. I mean, I was probably like 10 or 12 years old or something like that. And I asked her, I'm like, Hey,Aunt Kathy, like, what would you do if you had a billion dollars? And she just looked at me and goes money doesn't mean happiness. And I remember lookingback at her confused and I was like, yeah, but if you ever thought about how many people you could help, if you had a billion dollars and she just got quiet, didn't answer me and walked away. But I remember like back then, I did want it for, um, you know, like the nice cars and the bigger house and all that stuff. But there was this idea, even as a kid of like, wow, you could really help a lot of people with that. And I think I still carry that today. And I know you do as well. And I just, it just surprises. It doesn't surprise me. I shouldn't say surprises, but, I don't know what the right word is, but going through the questions and even just talking to like our students, my students, your students, and how many people have these, backwards money stories that just. Probably stop them from making money, um, because they have this idea or this internal conflict of like spirituality and money and they, they can't work together. And to me, they're, you know, to me, they do, to me, they're, they're almost, they're not necessary, but it's kind of, like you said, if you're in here with a certain type of purpose or Dharma or something like that, money's necessary. And if all of you guys are listening and you are business owners, like it's also required in order to grow a business, like you have to pay a team, you have to, you know, like pay for things. So thinking that it's it's anything other than a tool it's just going to hurt you from ever having any of it

Jim Fortin: And blind you. And, you know, Don Xavier is he's coming up to singing him tomorrow night, the night after for Christmas. And you've been around them you work with Don Xavier now. And you know, for a long time, he's talked about that one of the things that's trapping the world right now, and we obviously can't mention certain things on this call is the amount of people trapped in a particular aspect of consumer consumerism, meaning let me buy things. Let me own things. Let me have things. And because they're chasing material things that blinds them from the spiritual aspects of their own selves and that he put it in the same way he goes, you wouldn't talk about a virus that is a virus that's perpetuated around the world is let me chase money. And then people who chase the money, the things are chasing own the people who were chasing it and they lose themselves and their spiritual connection because they're caught up in commercialism and consumerism.

Brandon Lucero: Wow. Can you give me an example of how that might play out in someone's life?

Jim Fortin: Yeah is my own life. I just mention. I was, geez. I just thought that my own life is years ago. I was caught up in commercialism and consumerism, meaning as it applied to let me make money so I can buy a Porsche, buy this, this nice condo and all these kinds of things. I wish chasing things. And when I was chasing things, even though it was in me, I ignored it and I lost my self, which was my connection to higher divineness and my sense.

Brandon Lucero: Got it. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When did you meet Don?

Jim Fortin: May of I'm trying to think here guys, 1996.

Brandon Lucero: Okay. One of the questions, a lot of the questions that came in asked about DX and people were asking like, how do I know when it's time for me to work with a Shaman? How do I find a Shaman? If they're not a part of my family, which are all great questions. I don't know if you can answer those or not, but I'm just, I'm just curious on how the whole process of you meeting DX unfolded. I mean, obviously it was meant to be, and it was, you know, something that had to happen, but right. You know, I don't know. I don't think, I even know I had known the story of myself, of how you met him. I know you started dating your sister, I believe, but how did it all unfold?

Jim Fortin: But to answer that question is you don't get on Yelp and look for ratings of like the best Shaman in my town. And anyone will tell you this, anyone who calls themself a Shaman and is commercializing it, meeting with their books and their podcasts and all these kind of things, they're not Shaman. It gives real shamans. Number one, how do you find them? You don't, they find you and that's, if they want you to find them, otherwise, you don't find them.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: And we can even use your story a little bit, which will help people here, but keeping it relative to me or questions about this is when I met you. I knew there's something about you. I said something like he's everyone let's think I'm just like, he's one of us. What I meant by that is meaning you one of us. You're on this particular spiritual lineage and path. And so I knew that. And do you remember for the first year and a half, two years, I'm like in, because you were always asking questions about him and I was trying to introduce you and you were like, no, no, no, no. I introduced you to my birthday party and you gave me an excuse, why you couldn't come. And then the next year I invited you to another birthday party and you gave me an excuse. And I asked him for permission, if you could come. And he said, yes. And that second time around or third, he goes, where's your friend. Did he check it out again? That's exactly what he said, but I don't think you found him. I think he threw spirit and divine essence and process found each other. It wasn't that you said, oh, I'm going to go look for a Shaman because that, that way is not the real way. It's not the real process. Right? A lot of people will tell you it is because I was talking to a friend of mine. We both know. And he said, there's a person in his group that she calls her herself a money shaman. And then he's like, she was asking him how come I'm always broke. Yeah. If you, if you're, if you truly are money shaman you understand energy,you understand that money is energy. If you truly understood that you would not be broke all the time, or you would be managing in a different way. Mainly it's not that you're chasing money, you're managing it in a proper way.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: Anyway, the whole takeaway is be careful who you are.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, I, I, yeah, a hundred percent. And what I wrote down when you were talking about, it was just basically follow sense, because I remember when I met DX, or was introduced, like, I was always interested in like the spirit, not always in the last couple of years before I met DX ideas for charity. Like I would listen to psychics online and just like a lot of the new age stuff, I was kind of getting into crystals and whatever. And then, um, then I got introduced to you and then into DX, but it was like, it was like another whole other level. It was like, you know, I could just, you know, I don't know. It was just, I just knew, but I didn't know that I knew so to speak. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Jim Fortin: Wait, that's it. That's it it's that. And everyone listening. That's using his sense is that you, you know, and by the way sense is like your sixth sense. You know, it's not the five it's six. And I remember you and I were in Malibu one time grabbing some lunch. And then I was heading, I think, to speak in San Diego. And I was watching you and you were picking up on things around you. And my thought to me in that moment was okay, he's using his sense, but I don't think he knows that he's using his sense to gather information.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: Makes sense.

Brandon Lucero: But does that make sense about sense?

Jim Fortin: Yeah,but that's what sense is it's like, even beyond intuition, it's not a feeling, it just comes in unknowing

Brandon Lucero: It's unknowing.

Jim Fortin: You know but you don't know how or why, you know, you just know,

Brandon Lucero: And it doesn't, you can't think your way there, there's no logic involved. And in fact, those things can actually, from my experience, hinder your sense and kind of push it to the side. But yeah, I remember when you invited me on. to, you know, be a part like come to the inner circle and like, or I think it was a birthday, actually. It was a birthday gathering.

Jim Fortin: We were allowed for years on our birthday. Don Xavier does not allow us, you know, people that don't work with him around him, right. Because of their energy and on our birthdays, we're allowed to invite one person, whoever it is. That's the matter we're allowed to invite one person and I invited you, I wasted my invitation on you two years in a row when you shut me down. And I think the third year you finally came out.

Brandon Lucero: I did. And that was a, that was a crazy experience. I remember when I talked to him and he pulled me into the back room and did like talk to me about some certain things and that..

Jim Fortin: That sounds kind of odd, not the back room was my den.

Brandon Lucero: Or whatever like you guys were in one room, it was like the den. And it looked like you got the Den and you guys were in the living room or something like that. But it was like into another room, I guess, just talking about some personal things, because he had helped, um, my brother, Adam, so basically long story short, my brother Adam was stabbed in a movie theater by a homeless person who just like snuck into the theater and randomly stabbed and he almost died. And then, uh, the Don came in and brought in some beings and assisted in helping him basically brought him back to life. And, uh, and I believe to my core that Adam had the Don not stepped in and helped do that. Adam would not be here today. And so I went in and to go talk to DX and just thank him. And he said, oh, you come back here. Let's talk about it. So he was talking about it with me for a little bit about what happened and different things like that. And I was back there for like five minutes.

Jim Fortin: Yep.

Brandon Lucero: And I remember coming back out of the room and you look at me and you're like, what'd you guys talk about? I was like, oh, just Adam them, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, that's it. I was like, yeah, here, like you were back there an hour and a half. I was like, no, it was back there for five minutes. And I was like, no, you're like,no, you were back there for an hour and a half are all waiting. Like when are they going to come out? Like, let's get this evening going on. Let's let's get it started. And, um, I was like, Jim, it was five minutes and you just kind of laughed and goes, oh, he puts you in a time warp. And I was like, well, I was talking about, um, but the whole,

Jim Fortin: Wait, wait, wait. And then you did look at your watch.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. And it was an hour and half .

Jim Fortin: Holy shit. It was an hour. What happened? Where was that we're sitting in by the way,so people listening, he takes Brandon off the living room, into the den, and he's chatting with him. And when he's chatting with somebody and pulls them aside, no one else interrupts, we kind of like, you know, we'll chat amongst ourselves and have wine and do different thing in the other room. And so we're hungry, you know, we're waiting for you guys. And we're like, Are they going to be done already? We're hungry. We want to go on with this party. This is the burden that shows it's my birthday party and like an hour, hour and 45 minutes later, you're done.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, it was, it was, it was wild. But one of the reasons why it took me so long to start working with him was because I could feel, or just sense this, this, like, I don't know how to explain it other than just power. Like, it was a different level. It was like, there's no loosey goosey. Like it's, it's it. If you mess up or something like you're not integrity or you're not like whatever,the repercussions are bigger,

Jim Fortin: That power scares people, your kids can smell it and it scares them, right?

Brandon Lucero: Like the, the, the line gets thinner. So if you're not living in integrity or you're getting into arrogance, which I have big struggle with, you're getting into whatever. If you're just living a normal life, like the repercussions, aren't going to be massive. But when you're out working at a higher level, the repercussions swing deeper, I hadn't, I

Jim Fortin: Wait a minute let me explained that that means if you're you're working with a shaman or someone like that, and that means if you don't work through your anger, your anger is amplified. So all the things that you do with the anger hurts you. If you're not working with, let's say an amplifier, like a shaman, okay. That big deal. Yeah, look, you know, some ramifications is what we put out is what we gave back. But when you work with a shaman, it's like plugging into an amplifier and that energy is expanded. And so now you bring back more angry things into your life because your anger is amplified. So for people listening, I knew they were going to stop on that and say, what does that mean?

Brandon Lucero: Right. Yeah. And thank you for explaining that, but that's what I could feel. And then it wasn't until my brother Adam got stabbed that Mandy, his wife basically just said, are you gonna work with like, are you going step onto the path or not like, you're going to do it in this lifetime or the next, like, what are you doing? And I was like, okay. And I just knew, like I just knew I had to do it and I just couldn't procrastinate on it or push it back anymore. And I right at two, and now looking back and just like, what an idiot, like, why didn't I do this a lot sooner,

Jim Fortin: We've all been there, and you did it on your own time in your own pace for your own reasons and on ways. And he yes, you know, I mean, if you don't step on everyone listening, if you don't step on the path, now you will, at some point it's just a matter of what path and when you step on it.

Brandon Lucero: Right. So that was my, I guess, long, our long-winded answer to that question. But going back to when you met DX, I mean, was it just kind of like you had your immediate family and your sisters and all that stuff, and then all of a sudden she just started dating Don Xavier and then did he just introduce himself, like, Hey, I'm a shaman or like, what did that process look?

Jim Fortin: Here's my card.

Brandon Lucero: Here's my, here's my card. I mean, How did, how did that whole process develop?

Jim Fortin: I told you all this and you don't remember

Brandon Lucero: It's it's for the podcast, Jim, we're supposed to, there's actually people listening to this.

Jim Fortin: We're not just sitting in the living room. Okay. Now I, you know, you know, as adopted and I had never met my biological mother. And I was coming into Dallas and my adopted mother wanted me to meet, to meet my biological mother. They were friends when they were really young. My biological, my adoptive mother took me from, from a biological mother because she couldn't keep me. So I didn't want to meet my biological mother. And it was in Dallas and my mom's like, meet your mom, meet your mother. Okay. I didn't want to, I put it off for years.And so I agreed to have dinner with my biological mother. And when we were having dinner, she goes, your brother-in-law's a Shaman. And I'd already knew what that was. I mean, I was 31, 32. I already knew what it was because I was already on the path. And she goes, if you want, I can take you over. And I'm like, hell yeah, I went to meet him. Are you kidding? Yes, I will. And I went over to hand, Mandy, we're living in a little apartment back then. Yep. And I went over and he came down. He was upstairs and my mom and my sister and I, who I just met my sister and my mom that same night, we're sitting in the living room and he was upstairs in the loft and he came down about 30 minutes later and I could tell he was like. Gone. I mean, he was just, like he said, he was just coming back from a journey and he sat down and he gave me a necklace that a guy named his mentor, Don Juan had given to him, he gave me the necklace. That was, it's pretty phenomenal piece of art, but anyway, a little necklace and he goes here, I need to give this to you. And I could like, okay, I get it. I get it. And then I called him a couple of days later, once I got back to Dallas or whatever, and we chatted and he said, are you going to work with me or not? And I was like, what does that mean? I don't know what that means. And he goes, if you want to work with me, then here's how we do it. And there's a lot of other details I don't need to get into, but that's how I got started. And I've been on this path now, I guess for however many years, since 1996, I've been hypervigilant about being on this path because it is the path I am supposed to be on.

Brandon Lucero: Right. And if I understand correctly, even being on this path, there was, um, I don't know if resistance is the right word that you may have experience.

Jim Fortin: That's a great word. Why don't you go look in the mirror? You called me two, three weeks ago. And we're just, you're only half

Brandon Lucero: Just because you went there I'm not saying I haven't gone through it either, but this interview is about you, not me. So don't, don't deflect your resistance to me.

Jim Fortin: We both, okay. It's fair to say. Well, you've heard, you know, the phrase that Don Juan says that a severe man needs to be tricked on this path. You get on it because it, as you know, This ain't an easy path. No. And there are times you're like, let me just breathe. Let me have some air. Let me, oh my God, are you kidding me? I'm about, this is gonna kill me, you know? And we've been on it. Hell yeah. There's been times I've been resistance. I'm like resistant. I'm like, this is hard. This is for the birds. I'm quitting this stuff. But as you know, there's always, when we push through you and I now are pushing through some very significant levels. You things you never thought you'd be pushing through a couple of years ago. When you push through, you now have more clarity and higher ground to work from. Oh, that's your bully fair statement. There are times when I'm like, oh, I'm going to toss the talent on this path. I mean, this is like, I didn't sign up for this, but I did at a higher level of consciousness.

Brandon Lucero: I mean, there's literally times where I look at my neighbors and I'm like, man, I'm just, I guess, jealous of like the simple life of things they don't have to deal with, you know? Yeah. He's was like, man, you just have to like go to work and. Show up and you can like watch TV and do all these things, which you can still do, but it's like, you know, at least for me in the last year has just been a massive shamanic death. Whereas just the shedding of basically everything in my life has just

Jim Fortin: You got stripped,

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. Like completely complete stripping. It's like the amount of personal development that I've had to go through in the last year feels like it would be like 10 years worth of personal development into one year. And it's just one thing after another. And I've had conversations with you and I'm like, I don't know if I can do this. Number one. And number two, I don't even know if I want to anymore. Like, I'm just so done. And, and it's taught me a lot. The number one thing I think that it's taught me was how stubborn I actually am. And don't I tell you, it's like how it depends on how long you'd want to get beat up for like, he's had the conversation with me is like, just, you can let it go within a year. You can let it go within a month, but he's like, or day or day. Yeah. And it's up to you on how fast you want to let it go. And me being stubborn, I told you, I'm like, I have let go of so much, but I've had to get beat to a bloody pole yeah. In order to let go of it. And that's just been like over an over and over again into the past it's not easy, but like you said, on the other side, it's just like, you get to experience this beauty and clarity, um, that most people will never experience in a lifetime.

Jim Fortin: Well, let me add there for, so by the way, this is about me. Not about you. Okay. I know. No kidding. You don't get it. We kid all the time guys. I mean, we literally, there's very seldom a time that our conversations are serious.

Brandon Lucero: Sometimes your stories aren't very good. So I have to fill them in with mine just to make it good.

Jim Fortin: Thank you for rescuing me on my podcast.

Brandon Lucero: I have to, That's why they needed me

Jim Fortin: A little butter.

Brandon Lucero: Anyways, go ahead and add your comment,

Jim Fortin: But like hurry up. Right. Just spit it out and add your comment so I can move on. So. You get this when Brandon said that it's hard sometimes, and I wish I could do things that are normal. Now, when you're on this path, you can do things that are normal. And sometimes they become very painful that you don't want to do them anymore. Like, you know, better than anybody Brandon this applies to me as well. And I've experienced it for so many years. There are, there might be an eclipse that rolls around and you're like, what the hell just ran over me for three days? I couldn't even get out of bed. Yeah. Why am I having this? Why am I having that? I woke up and I was nauseous all day along. And you know, the list of symptoms of why does my stomach hurdle all day long? And you know, we don't ask why we're basically like what's going on here. What is it this time? And as you know, also when these things string themselves together and you've got one after another, after another, after another, you're kind of like, okay, I'm done spirit. I'm done stop beating the hell out of me. Right. I don't know if I'm going to make it through this, but then, ah, once it subsides, now you have more clarity again. I think for me more peace, because you can see more things at a level beyond you have more freedom than when you were trapped on all those things.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: I don't know if that make sense, but

Brandon Lucero: It does. Well, here's how I'm going to relate it back to even just business and things like that. Because some of the questions you got from the listeners too, are just kind of like, well, how did you find this path? How did you, you know, get into the transformational path? Because when I met you, you were selling real estate packages. Like you were flying around the country. I think you're making like maybe $250,000 a year, going from brokerage to brokerage, like doing an hour training and then pitching your coaching program, which eventually I believe became TCP if I understand it correctly.

Jim Fortin: Yeah.

Brandon Lucero: And I remember just sitting there going like there's so like you have so much more to offer than, you know, teaching real estate agents, how to sell more homes. I remember you telling me, you're like, I just want to make this good money, sit on the porch with a glass of wine and that's how I'm gonna live out the rest of my days. And I was like

Jim Fortin: Yeah guys I did.

Brandon Lucero: Sure. Okay. That sounds great. But all of this experience in working with the Don of gives you that deeper, knowing it gives you that experience. It gives you mastery over your craft. It allows you to see things that others can't see, which allows you to teach things that others can't teach. And so for me, I've experienced that inside of my own business of being able to see things completely different, but I've had to go through quote, unquote hell sometimes to, to get there, or really tough times of being on this path. And I think that everything you've gone through with working with the Don has essentially led you to the point of where you're at now. And like had you not been on the path or gone through that, we could, you know, one could argue that you may not even be doing what you do. Like this podcast won't exist. You know, we're doing a lot of things, right.

Jim Fortin: There is many years ago after a channeling, you know, the Don's a channel. You've not seen him do it, but you know, as a channel right a medium, and many years ago, he said to me, he goes, how come Wayne Dyer this after chanelling and Wayne Dyer asked me to meet, to introduce you to Don Xavier many years ago. And Don Xavier said, no. Yeah. And he said, how come Wayne Dyer is talking about things that I've done as you know, people like Deepak Chopra and these people, they know nothing about me. That I'm nothing about this path. You're my brother-in-law. And why are you not out there talking about this?

Brandon Lucero: Damn how many years ago was that?

Jim Fortin: It was 20 years. Don't judge, 20 years ago. And I was kinda like I don't know. And so all of us are slow learners. We can all be slow learners. And I remember when I was at an event, I knew you that it's called transformational coaching weekend, but just eight people Rich Schefren as a coach. And Rich said to me who have he's a big internet marketer, very, very well known. I've known him for 20 years. And he said, Jim, because I was teaching persuasion and influence. And he said, Jim, ,have you considered that you're on the wrong path? And I remember saying no, why? Because I was going back to leave me alone, let me make my good money and sell my Porsche and drink some wine and enjoy my life. It's easy. It's an easy life. And when he said that, I started thinking maybe I'm on the wrong path. Maybe there's a reason that I do work with, and you know, this brand a real Shaman, not somebody who says they're a shaman, not somebody who's a CPA Monday through Friday from five to six, nine to six. This dude moves Ben's time. He's shape shift. See he can, you've seen in your own life, people that have been near death or medical problems and. Because you're working with him. Right. And then it dawned on me. I was like, maybe this is my path.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: And when I went to that, that weekend, it dawned on me, everything that's being taught was called transformational psychology but I also recognized that this all has elements of shamanism in it. This is what I've lived for years. I can talk about this. And that's when I started, I wrote the transformational coaching program and it's just built and built and built where we are today. Millions of downloads of the podcast, the program does extremely well. We have students right now in 20 different countries. We're raising a hundred thousand bucks, a pop for charity and different things plus mainly I'm creating a ripple where I'm impacting people's lives and they impact people's lives. But it all came from that one moment where I said, whoa, I'm on the wrong path. I need to get on the path. And you saw this, you were in my life. How life literally exploded in one year.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I remember you told me your lenders when you bought the house needed you to explain how you made so much money, because that's not normal. Like what is going on

Jim Fortin: When I bought this house here, which we've already bought another house. When I bought this house, the lenders, like we need a paragraph explaining how you grew your income 3000% in one year.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah.

Jim Fortin: And I wrote up a paragraph. I said, here's chow and I didn't say spiritual stuff and shamanism and all that. But I just basically said, I, I shifted the focus of my business from business to spirituality, so to speak and transformation.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, I, and I think for a lot of the, I mean, some of the listeners might be thinking, well, I don't have access to Don Javier, like you then how to do it. Know it's not necessarily about working with Don Xavier. It's about understanding and using your sense to know when you're on the wrong path, when something isn't where you're supposed to be anymore, or you've learned all the lessons you need to learn from this thing and really living in your purpose, alignment or Dharma, you know, like every, we go through things and we learn it different experiences. And I don't know my belief on this and I haven't talked to the Don's could be complete BS, but my belief on things is that we have different purposes at different moments in our life. Like five-year-old version of Brandon, his purpose in that moment, wasn't to do what I do today, but we have to kind of listen to those different things, listen to when the purpose is shifting. And it sounds like that's kind of what you did, but you're taking all this experience from DX and incorporating it in your own way.

Jim Fortin: Yeah, let me do things. Number one, Don Xavier is not, I'd mentioned before. It's not the one on YouTube. That guy, that's got a YouTube channel and he calls himself Don Xavier, not the same one. And then secondly, it's like seasons of life. You know, I moved into, I moved into, I need to, honestly, just I'm like I need to mature is what I said to myself several years ago. I need to mature even spiritually. Why? Because I had bigger things to do. And if I'm to do bigger things, I need to be more expanded, more aware, more present all these kind of things to be able to do it. But I started a new season in my life and I'm even watching as I'm doing this new season of the last six, seven years that I am actually saying it's time to rebirth even a new season out of that because the movement is growing. And as it grows, I have to grow to be able to lead and accommodate the people that I serve.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What does that new season going to be? What's the new season going to be? Do you have any ideas?

Jim Fortin: Yeah. Um, okay. So I was out to an event in Sedona last week when Anita Morjaani was here speaking and Anita Morjaani wrote the book Dying to be Me and I wanted to have her on the podcast. And then a guy named Bruce Lipton was here and he's really well-known and he was here and I was like, I want to, and I asked Bruce, would you be on the podcast? And he said, yes. And when I was watching them speak, I said to myself, these guys don't have anything on me. I mean, the trenches and the depths that I have been in, they're not saying anything I don't already say or fully understand.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: And so I posted in one of my groups yesterday for the inner circle, which is about to expire after. And I said, Hey guys, what do you want next year? Do you want me to bring in like a guest speaker every quarter? Like, you know, Anita Morjaani and Bruce Lipton and maybe a Gregg Braden, one person per quarter per quarter, and someone at a hundred and something comments, and someone said, what should happen is you should trust yourself even more. We can go find those guys anywhere and you should trust yourself even more. And talk about what comes from you and full transparency. I was like, I don't know that I don't trust what comes from me, but I, I, I hold a lot of the back. Yeah. Things, you know, you've seen some of the craziness and things we've been through. Right. And things. Now imagine me 26 years doing that. Outside regular reality and the things in the world and things that you and I see that you're exposed to now, I'm like maybe I should just take what I talk about on the podcast to do a hyper, whole new level. But for some reason I haven't done that. So the next level level for me is maybe having a podcast called JIM Uncensored. Whereas if you want to hold onto your own beliefs and your old crap don't even listen because you ain't going to like it. Right. But you know, if you're really ready to, to, to really expand yourself, I'm thinking that's probably where I want to go.

Brandon Lucero: Okay. Why were you holding back?

Jim Fortin: Why was I, why was I holding back? Because fear, but not recognizing it's fear and holding back because what I'm doing works and the amount of people that I'm attracting the growth of the podcast, the programs, and pardon me. I have a formula that's that works. Why would I fix something that's not broken? Right. But, you know, I have all these other, I'm just, you know, learning this on this call. I have all these other resources, massive amounts of resources. And you know, about a lot of them. Why don't I just open that door and see what happens? Yeah. So maybe it's just because, Hey, this is helping it's working. It's it's, it's helping a lot of people it's helping me. Everyone wins. Why fix it ain't broken.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I mean, that makes a good question. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that you're, you're evolving it. And finally, like going to the depths, I think it'd be really, really cool and valuable to a lot of people, but we kind of touched on something that I don't think a lot of people get to see from you like being someone who helps people transform their lives. I don't know how much you are, how, um, how much vulnerability you bring to the podcast and things like that, of your own experience and problems and things that you're dealing with. What are some of the biggest, like, um, insecurities that you've had to overcome in your lifetime that you think might be valuable to the listeners that they probably don't know about?

Jim Fortin: Okay. That's a great question, Brandon. And let me add here, you know, me, I think you probably physically 3D even emotionally, psychologically know me better than anyone, except my partner, John and Don Xavier. Yeah. You know me, I mean, we're really, really, uh, good friends and you've seen you've, you've seen me all that. I mean, we talk, you and I, you know, guys listening, his wife is like, you guys are like school girls. I mean, you guys talk every day and, and I do chat every day. We'll just chat text, say, Hey, what's up. But when I was at the hospital, the second time you saw, I mean, you came to help. When we moved into the new house, when I was out of the hospital, what a week after the stroke. And as you've noticed, I think you've, I don't know what you've noticed, but even when I was thinking, okay, so I had heart failure this year and I had a stroke this year. What would that do to most people? How would they manage it? And for me, it was kind of like, and it's just a thing, you know, it's just a thing, it's just a thing or a thing. Or it's just the thing that was, it was just a blip. So I kind of started thinking isn't that a problem that I don't have problems. I don't even know. I think you've seen me long enough. I tell you everything. I mean, you know, where my skeletons are buried on there, where yours are buried, you know? And I don't really think I get caught up on, oh, this is a problem when I've got to stop and oh my God, I had a stroke and oh my God, I hope I don't get caught up in that. So when it comes to. What insecurities that I have to, to shed and stuff like that. I don't know that I really had them. I just said, I want to go do this. And I went out and did it, and now we're at two and a half million downloads two and a half years later. I'm like obvious that it's something. Right.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: And I'll, I'll just be a hundred percent transparent. It's a little humbling. I don't know, because I think it's arrogance also. I don't know, but I was at dinner last night with John and Padma and her husband, Assad and Pad was one of my coaches now. And they were saying and Assad was one of my students. One time listens to the podcast still and is like, there's just something about you. You have something that's about you that I want to listen to you. And I'm kind like by no, but analytically I'm like. Why me, I ain't got nothing to say. You know, that's why I waited for so long. They even started doing transformational programs, working with a shaman years prior. I was like, who wants to listen to me? Not that I devalued myself, not because you know what I was doing. I enjoyed prior and I was good at it, but I had kind of had this thought as I'm still learning myself, what do I have to share? And I'm recognizing that it doesn't really matter. I'm not recognizing I'm owning it now, but I'm like, just go do what you're going to do. And whatever's going to happen as a result of that, but just be you and do what you're going to do.

Brandon Lucero: Now. You, I think what it is, at least from my perspective is you've gotten really good at losing attachments. Like, okay. Like you don't seem very attached to alot of things. Um, Uh, my friends. Yeah, your friends and like people that are like relationships, I think you are, but you're the type of person that if you lost your house and all the money tomorrow, I don't think it would really send you a scream into the Hills or anything like that. You'd be like, oh, okay. Because you have no attachment. That's something that the Don talks to us about. And that's actually, that has been a huge issue for me this last year too, is learning first, recognizing the attachments that I had. And then now trying to like go through the process of like losing them. And that that's been really hard. But for you, I don't see you it attached to too many things.

Jim Fortin: And let me interject Brandon, the number one is you had to lose your attachments because you and I, you would call me, you were in pain. Yeah. You were in pain and you're like, this pain hurts. So I want to stay in pain or do it all want to let, go with this. So you had more pain that made you let go of things. And it just dawned on me. So look at the pain you've had in the past. Let's say two years physiologically, emotionally. And when you're in those kinds of pains, working with a sham an when he's pushing you or she, you you'll do anything to stop the pain. Right. So why'd you recognize, you've had two years of that imagine 20 however many years of that. And I think what what's happened is that become so conditioned to having to let go and let go and let go and let go. That it's easier for me to just, okay. It's what it is. And I move right through it.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: That's my, my.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, I, so I have a question that I actually, when I was coming up with questions for this podcast, it kind of hit me and I'm like, I'm actually really curious about this. Uh, so hopefully it's not getting too, too personal, but, um, you mentioned your partner, John, right? But we also joke cause I've been with my wife since I was, uh, 15, like 15 and 16 years old. She's she's the only woman I've ever been with and, and intimately in all ways. Right. And we always joke that be careful where you're going here, because if anybody ever heard her uncensored phone calls, all I'm gonna say is we, we joke that because you obviously are gay and you have your partner, uh, John, that you've slept with more women than me.

Jim Fortin: And I knew you were going to give

Brandon Lucero: We always make that joke. And it's funny, it's all jokes and games and whatever, like it's, and it's funny. It's really funny that my gay best friend has slept with more women than, than I have. But my question to you is. You know, obviously I don't. Did you always know that? Did you not know you were gay? How did, what was that transition like? And was there a vulnerabilities you had to work through things you had to work through to, oh my God. Yeah. To do that. What was that? What was that about?

Jim Fortin: I am a weird story and that I, I, I grew up. Okay. So I grew up in a different world than you did. Uh, you know, I'm older than you. And back when I was growing up is, you know, we didn't have TV and Will and Grace and Ellen and Oprah and all that.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: And I didn't really know that I was gay. I think they call it latent. There's something. I didn't know. I just knew that I was just not ever set in dating.

Brandon Lucero: Right.

Jim Fortin: And when I was really young, I was a really nice looking guy and people used to always say, where's it all the girls, where's all the dates. And I'm like, I don't really want to go on a date. It was kind of like a loner, right. To some degree. And I have never told this story. This is a matter, I mean, I've shared it only ever, definitely not shared on the podcast, but I remember. It was August of 1988. And I lived on the beach after college in South Texas. And I woke up one morning with an anxiety attack, a bad one anxiety and a panic attack the same time. And in that moment I thought, and it hit me because it's a whole different world I thought, and I don't even know why it hit me or where it came from. That's why it's so confusing. I'm like I'm gay and it hit me. And then I started throwing up and then I went through a year having no health insurance, being broke, living on the beach after college, working on a, managing a t-shirt shop where I couldn't afford and where I was living. There was not a lot of, uh, psychological care, but I went through a year of having severe anxiety and clinical depression attacks. And I, I mean, I was mentally just messed up for a year, really, really bad. I didn't even thought about what if I killed. Yeah. And it was that bad all the time. But the thing was, I was like too afraid to kill myself. And I was like, hell no, that's for losers. And I ain't going to do that. But it was it was really bad. Yeah. And then it came to, okay, if this is the case and again, what in the world now I'm like, I better accept this. I mean, this is if this is who I am and then I spent a decade hiding it. And I've now I wanted to tell this on the podcast. I didn't mean to tell it this episode, but I am now. So Don Xavier when I met him, we were in Yosemite one time on family vacation and I just got shit faced drunk. And I'm like, can I talk to you? And we went outside and I said, I'm gay. And he goes, I know that he goes, I knew that before you knew that, because I guess I you know, I know it's your energy, it's in your frequency. Hm. He goes, never define yourself by what you are. Never define yourself by a label. And so we went back inside and he goes, I'm going to be, and he almost want to cry here because this is him, you know him. Yeah. Because I'm going to be by your side every step of the way. And then maybe the next few years, something I was already like, I don't, I don't know, 19 two, I don't know, 2000, 2000, maybe two. I don't know we were going on another family vacation and at the airport, he pulled me aside and he goes, okay, we're going on vacation. And now you don't even know this story, Brandon. He goes, I don't care when you do it, you can do it right now. This moment, you can do it with the second, the plane lands. And before you get back in this terminal, you will come out to mom, do you understand? And he said, you waste more energy hiding and not being who you are. And can you imagine what would happen in the world if you didn't hide who you are. And again, this was like 20 years ago and that was okay. Time to come out. And I told mom and mom, my biological mother completely accepting all of my friends were a hundred. I had a really fortunate experience. Yeah. But dude, I was going to do a podcast episode on this more dramatic. Now you took an episode I was going to do because the whole concept is he told me one time. He goes, you know what? You're out. I've been out for a lot of years, decades because you're out, but being out is not the same thing as accepting yourself. And until you accept yourself and you love yourself, it doesn't matter that you're out. And so for me, that was the lesson.

Brandon Lucero: What did that process look like, loving yourself.

Jim Fortin: Except that's where I go to. That's why I understand it for everyone listening and for you and for everyone is you, don't, it's such a nebulous concept to love yourself, but you can't love yourself unless you accept yourself for whoever or whatever you are. And until you can do that, you won't love yourself. And that's where all the abuse comes in and the denial and dysfunction the depression and all these kinds of things that people deal with. I experienced, I believe, I think I observe it's because we're denying something at a deeper or higher at a deeper psychological level, but a higher spiritual level. We have to let who we are, come through us.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I mean, and that's one of the things that Don preaches to us all the time remember who you are. And I admittedly had no idea what that meant when I first started working with him. But hearing your story of like how much energy you're wasting, by not trying to hide. I think by not remembering who we are, we're just leaking personal power all over the place. But when you look at some of the people that are at the top of the game, or just have the IT factor, most of them are people that don't bend to the external role than kind of just embrace who they are. You know?

Jim Fortin: And, you know, years ago my friend brought, came into town. You met him when we were there. And he came over to visit at the condo when we were in Boulder and many years ago, I was already out of the closet 15 years prior, but we're now the advent of social media and I'm like, Brock, do you think I should come out on social media? You know, not come out like an official, you know, gay waving the flag. I mean, you know, you've said other than being a married man, you're gayier than I am, that it's true. And. You know, he said to me, he said, I remember, I always remember this. He goes, if anybody doesn't like you for who you are, why would you want to be connected with them in the first place? Yeah. And I've always, it's always, I remember a quote that I read many years ago in New York that the quote was said, I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I think that's where a lot of suffering comes in is just not being who you are. And it's the same that holds true to anything.It's like, why would you want to be with someone in a relationship with someone like whether it's family members, spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, who doesn't like you for who you really are, and you start to lose who you are. Like, I think a lot of will do that. They start to lose who they are to be accepted by others. And it's a dangerous path to go on that leads to a lot of suffering and

Jim Fortin: It leads to a lot of self hate and then self hate leads to abuse, whether it be money or alcohol or drugs or whatever it is. And I've been done that path. I've not done drugs other than living in Arizona now and doing the gummies and stuff like that. But I've never been a, you know, a hard drug user. Right. But I look at, for example, and I'm not in the communities, I'm not in any community, except you like you, the human community, we're spiritual beings, you know, we're cosmic beings. I'm not an, as you know, I don't have any gay flags and gave me bumper stickers and Wohoo gave her, I don't do all that stuff. That's not me. You know, even though everyone listening, Brandon has said this prior to us meeting, he always wanted a gay friend and he ended up with me, wanted some drag queen as a gay friend. But he's like, I got stuck with you.

Brandon Lucero: Well, I mean, I, what I think the stereotypical gay man, they're just so much fun to be here.

Jim Fortin: And then I'm sorry, I ruined your life.

Brandon Lucero: So if you could be a little bit more straight, typical, that would be amazing is basically what I'm saying.

Jim Fortin: No, let me go put a dress on. Okay.

Brandon Lucero: Wait my gosh, whatever. Well, now we're getting into something else, but, uh, the last thing I want to talk about before we wrap up this episode is actually John. And, um, how you guys met and then how he came into the path, because it sounds like you've been working with the Don. You have been, um, for awhile, and then you realized you were gay. You went through this whole process of loving yourself coming out.Self-acceptanceg. And then you met John. And I know like for me, I was already married coming into this path. So it's been slow, a slow progression of, of certain things. So like not like candles and different tools that I have now. And she's just at the point where like, there's probably this way, if she came into what it is now with no context for anything she been, like, what is, this is weird. So how was it for John coming in to like, personal relationship with you, how did you guys meet? And then how was he? Because he's on the path to, how did that whole process unfold?

Jim Fortin: Well you know, John extremely well. Yeah. You know, you've been here at the house when it's just been the three of us in the back deck, drinking wine. Yeah. You know how much John trusts you and is comfortable around you and everything. When I met John, I'd moved back to Dallas from New York city. And this was kind of, that's a 2000 and 2000 or thereabouts never done this. I placed now it's back then. It was kind of like, no one does it now everyone does. But I placed an ad on a website called planet out, which was like a gay, it was like a, wasn't a hookup site like 10 girls. It was, it was a legit site, right. And gay news and all that kind of stuff. And I placed an ad and I got two responses and I only got two because I wrote in the ad that if you, you know, if you're basically a Bible wielding Texas Baptist, we're probably not going to be a match. And, and you might want to, if you are a really good interviewer, you would have opened up that story also in this episode, but the Baptist in Texas. But anyway, so. Your Will's returning, but know,

Brandon Lucero: I said, I said maybe next time, okay. Maybe let me talk

Jim Fortin: Maybe 400 episode. Okay. So anyway, I placed an ad. I got two responses. He was one and there was no picture. And he sent the really kind of insightful response and I responded back right away. And basically he sent a picture. I didn't like the picture. I didn't like the picture. And so anyway, but there's some that about him and, but here's the thing. So we agreed like four or five days later, we agreed to meet. Yeah. And we got together and this is what twin flames you get this now with Jacqueline is Butch you didn't also, I've been there. But the second I saw him, I mean, I didn't, we'd even spoken. He was coming across the bar and I saw him in the light, kind of just shined the head in the eyes and I could see him. And in that moment I'm like, he's the one. And you know, we've been together 20 years now, but that, but right after it's funny, we were having dinner last night with Padma and Assad and they ask him, how did you get on the path? Because they're on a path, a spiritual path, spiritual, serious spiritual path, not just, Hey, new age book, read this. I mean, they're on the path. And he said that when he met. Lucky when I, when I met you at Cents, he goes, you know, Jim introduced me to a world that I didn't even understand. I mean, right away, I did not understand in the world, but I wasn't afraid of it. I didn't run from it. I just, I had always been looking for something, but I didn't know what it was. And when Jim explained the path, I just was like, okay, I'll kind of start walking. And now he's really been working with Don Xavier for 19 years, right. Like me on the inner circle with Don Xavier and family and seeing him and everything else. But that was him. I mean, I knew the story, but he just reinforced the last night. He just knew that it was the right thing for him to do.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I remember him telling me, or maybe you told me one of you, one of you guys told me, uh, that he was kind of looking around the room and he goes, I see a lot of people that aren't crazy. Saying a lot of crazy things. And I don't know what to think about this. I thought,

Jim Fortin: No. Yeah. The first month, because the very first two or three weeks I'd met him, I invited him to a family birthday party. Yeah. And because we, you know, we get together for birthdays. We still do in some degree now for birthdays and I invited him. And so he was thrown, thrown into this whole group, like remember the first group you came to remember. Yup. And so he was thrown into the group and, uh, later on, we're talking a couple of weeks and he's like, you know, all these people that are with you and hanging out with Don Xavier. You all seem to be very smart, very normal, regular people saying crazy things. And he goes, I don't get it either. You all are crazy, but you don't sound crazy. Or I, and my entire life and all of my friends from all of my life are crazy and it can't be both. It's gotta be one or the other because they're so different. Right. And now he looks back. You will you understand this more than anyone? Almost that I. It's a matrix. Once you step outside of mass consciousness and outside of CNN and Fox and politics and the economy and Bitcoin, once you step out of that world and you look at it from a different place that world to you that you lived in for so many years, it looks like insanity, but you don't know you're living in insanity when you're living in it and you have to live your life this way and that way and be this way and be that way. And when you get outside, you think it's scary to go outside and then you're outside and you're like, I'm free. Yeah. I'm free from all that. So that's, that's how it all happened.

Brandon Lucero: I call it like a, a commotion tornado is what it feels like sometimes. And then what you know, working with the Don has done is pulled me out of that, like tornado. And you start realizing that your entire life of what you were told is right, wrong. Normal was nothing more than a fabrication. A group of people or your own mind, and then you get, like you said free, and then also you get, I, you know, I, for me, at least I get pulled back in from time to time and have to like pull myself back out. But

Jim Fortin: Move to Sedona

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, well working on the

Jim Fortin: smaller town, I know, I know.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. We'll see. Um, yeah. Well, I mean, I, I appreciate you. Let me come on to this episode. I think this is a good place to, to wrap it up.

Jim Fortin: Um, hang on, tell them, I know this is my podcast and about me, but where can they find you?

Brandon Lucero: Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I have a podcast called The New Generation Entrepreneur Podcast . We talk a lot about similar things and then also a lot about messaging and content and how to build a business online, stuff like that. Or you can just go to, @iambrandonlucero, on Instagramand kind of like what Jim said is he, you know, there's a lot of shamanism and stuff into his work. There's a lot of that type of stuff into my work, but I put it in the, I talk about it through the context of messaging and marketing, which I think is pretty cool. So if you guys want to listen about that, uh, head over there and, um, Jim, the last question that I have for you before we wrap everything up is, is there one profound moment that you can think of in your life that really had the biggest impact or change the trajectory of everything? Is there one or is there multiple.

Jim Fortin: I'll probably to think about how to answer what's coming to me. Yeah. I'll just tell you what's coming to me. I don't know if it's the right answer, wrong answer, et cetera. Just coming to me is my profound hit in the face was when I actually experienced shamanism and working with a sorcerer or a shaman, not as an intellectual idea, not as an idea, not as a thought, not as a fancy, but when we were in Peru in 2001 on sacred journey for the, for the Spring Equinox, one island of the sun, we were on the island of the sun, which is agragarian culture. There's nothing there there's no, not even any electricity. And I started hearing pushed on Xavier off the.cliff.Pushed Don Xavier off the cliff and then go back to New York city and kill yourself. I know I told you this. So I think, but yeah, I was hearing this and I'm like, and then my roommate then was somebody that was working with Don very closely. That was on that trip, who was an MD and a national expert in psychosis. And I'm like, Todd, I'm experiencing I'm psychotic. And you know, he would just, he's like, Jimmy, you're not psychotic. And so I kept hearing this voice is pushed Don Xavier off the cliff and kill yourself, go to New York and kill yourself, go to New York and kill yourself. And I was freaking out. I was in a lot of agonizing pain and that happened for about two days. Don Javier never said a word to me about any of that. And then we were sitting across each other from lunch one day. And I just started crying and then his body language shifted and he goes, do you know what's happening to you? And I said, uh, no. And he goes, you're being attacked by Diableros, which is a Spanish word. To translate it, I guess, loosely a black shaman, um, uh, uh, a black being a dark being and he goes, you are being attacked by Diableros. And he said, we are here to bring light and they don't want us to bring the light. We're here to bring healing in the light and they want to stop that. So they're attacking the weakness in all of you. And he goes, they're attacking your anger. And your hate in you. And now moment, that became very real, that I mess around here. I mean, this is the, this is a non ordinary experience, a non-ordinary reality and this in Kansas anymore, you know, it's not in the book, it's not a notebook. It's not enlisting. They have, there's something very real here and it energetically and it took me probably a year to recover from the emotional trauma of that experience. And you ask, that's just what popped into mind. That's the first thing where I'm like this aint a game and this is power and I have to play the game well,

Brandon Lucero: Yeah, I mean, I don't even know what to say to that. And you know, one of the questions that were asked was. Do you believe that there's something that happens after death and another one was like, do you believe in other spirits and beings? I almost didn't like, oh, I didn't, I didn't ask them because I'm like, well, obviously the answer is yes. So I'm not going to even ask those, but that is a perfect example of, of, yeah. And yeah. Um, it's not a matter of belief.

Jim Fortin: It's a matter of that's what exists. Believe it or not. You can say you don't believe in gravity. Jump off a building.

Brandon Lucero: Yeah. I, well, here's how, here's how I kind of look at, you talked about a sixth sense and you've talked about like, there's more than our five senses and I've heard Don has said this to me. He's like the five senses. Limit us so much because in our site, our smell or what are, you know, touch because those things create what we perceive to be reality. And, you know, if we didn't have the sight of like, if you didn't, you didn't have the ability to hear right now, this podcast wouldn't exist. It wouldn't become part of your reality. But when you develop a sixth or seventh sense, what you perceive as reality starts to shift and change. And so one of the things for me is just those things have started to shift and change. You start to experience stuff, and you're like, there's something over there. Or I'm hearing certain things. Or there's a being, being like literally seeing him not with my eyes. And that was, I remember was with you in Sedona and something was talking to me and we were with James as well. And it kept saying, can you see us? Can you see us. And it sounded like a voice in my head, but it wasn't me.

Jim Fortin: Oh, we were hiking that night.

Brandon Lucero: Right, right. Yeah. And then I was like, I can't see you. And then it just, I remember it shooting back into my head going, no, don't see with your eyes. And I was like, oh, the way I'm trying to see needs to completely shift and change. And so, um, I don't know how I got on that, but yeah, it's, it's to answer this to that person's question is there's definitely more than just us. Yeah. And more than just the physical. Um, and I know we could sit here all day and talk about your different experiences and stuff like that, but, thank you for sharing everything you did today. Everything about, you know, coming out and that what, that was like, the being attacked and just everything you shared. , I'm so honored to have been asked to do this with you and, um, love you like a brother and

Jim Fortin: I am a brother. Yeah. We all know, I, I. Fortunate to have you as a friend. I'm really, even though you're the biggest pain in the ass, sometimes

Brandon Lucero: It's mutual pain in my ass.

Jim Fortin: So it's mutual, but you have changed. You used to be obstinate as hell. I tried to help you and you'd fight me all the time.

Brandon Lucero: Well, that's the thing is like, I I've realized that over the years, I'm the type of person that needs to be beat to a bloody pulp before I change it. I'm one of those people that changes when I have to. And after this last year, I'm like, I can't, I can't do that anymore. I'm just too tired. Like I just, I got a family, I got kids. I'm like, I can't keep fighting anymore because, and I'm fighting something better, you know, like I'm fighting the road. Like why would I ever want to do that? So, yeah.

Jim Fortin: Well, what I was going to say is, you know, I mean, you know how much I love you and I'm so glad you're in my life. And thank you for, for doing this today. And you were the right person for doing it. And just thanks a lot. And I'll talk to you soon, brother,

Brandon Lucero: Anytime. I get one,Take care.

Jim Fortin: Bye bye.


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Jim Fortin

Jim is an international subconscious self-transformation and high performance expert with over two decades of expertise in brain based transformation and high performance. Using a brain based approach coupled with transformational psychology and ancient wisdom Jim has created programs that create long-term core-level life transformation in his students.

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